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Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby bg_turk » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:39 pm

Piratis wrote:This is a self contradicting statement. The Greek Cypriots are the majority of the northern part of Cyprus. Even if we assume that this part was separate, if democracy existed then "TRNC" would have never even be declared since GCs would not have accepted that.

The "TRNC" would not exist with democracy and without ethnic cleansing.

It is illegally formed by grossly violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of people. For this reason it will only exist as an illegal pseudo state and nothing more than that.


Certainly the TRNC has made many mistakes in the past by ethnically cleansing people from their homeland. But after all aren't all countries in the region based on ethnic cleansing?
The TRNC should remedy the past wrongs not by abolishing itself, as you propose, but by reforming and transforming itself into a modern democracy.
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Postby zan » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:53 pm

bg_turk wrote:
Piratis wrote:This is a self contradicting statement. The Greek Cypriots are the majority of the northern part of Cyprus. Even if we assume that this part was separate, if democracy existed then "TRNC" would have never even be declared since GCs would not have accepted that.

The "TRNC" would not exist with democracy and without ethnic cleansing.

It is illegally formed by grossly violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of people. For this reason it will only exist as an illegal pseudo state and nothing more than that.


Certainly the TRNC has made many mistakes in the past by ethnically cleansing people from their homeland. But after all aren't all countries in the region based on ethnic cleansing?
The TRNC should remedy the past wrongs not by abolishing itself, as you propose, but by reforming and transforming itself into a modern democracy.


The TRNC has done none of the above, it was formed well after any wars and only when negotiations failed. There is nothing in the TRNC constitution that refers back to any of the events that went before it. If you want to do that then I assume we will be referring to the EOKA supporting GC government as the same one as exists today.

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I already guessed which way you were going with this! There has never been more equality on the island than exists today. Admittedly not the entire island for one particular side, but in each case a constitution exists that is fair and relevant in terms of nationality and of religion. You have to stop playing the numbers game and realise that the realities are, neither side wants to be a minority to the other. The single-minded goal of housing and land cannot and will not be the cure for the islands’ problems, whether it is the wish of a combined majority or not.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:30 pm

But after all aren't all countries in the region based on ethnic cleansing?

No. RoC was definitely not formed in that way. And the countries you are talking about (e.g. Turkey) were created before the UN. The UN were created for a reason as you know.

I can understand that for you things like human rights and international laws should not be considered so you can continue your tradition of stealing what others have created. However allow us to support progress. And be sure that there is no way that you will manage to legalize the crimes that you continue to do against us.

The TRNC should remedy the past wrongs not by abolishing itself, as you propose, but by reforming and transforming itself into a modern democracy.


:lol: :lol: Yes. Very nice democracy: Go kill and throw out the ones you don't like, and then have "democracy" only with the ones that agree with your racist crimes. Thats definetly NOT democracy my friend.

There has never been more equality on the island than exists today. Admittedly not the entire island for one particular side, but in each case a constitution exists that is fair and relevant in terms of nationality and of religion.

You can't build a country on stolen land and call this "fair". Tell Turkey to give you part of her land and go have your own separate state there if you want. Why don't you do that?

You have to stop playing the numbers game and realise that the realities are, neither side wants to be a minority to the other.

Because you don't want to be a minority, which you are, this gives you the right to perform ethnic cleansing and violate our human rights? As I told you, if you want a separate state go build it anywhere else, but not on our land. You have absolutely no right to do that, and this why what you have is a pseudo puppet state and this is how it will remain. (until the balance of power will change and legality restored)
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:00 pm

Piratis do you not realize all your arguements are based on hollow threats no one is concerned about the balance of power and I am 100% certain it will not happen in your life time if ever.
You have to accept reality its today now what you are living and breathing today. You have to negotiate with us the TCs if you want to wait go ahead we are doing that right now but if you are sincere and want to resolve issues then you should try to solve matters not hurl threats around. Once you have arranged for a change in power then go ahead and use it blow all the TCs to kingdom come and live happily ever after in your utopian Greek state.
But for now you either accept the current status quo like all Tassos followers or try to negotiate a solution be it recognized division or unificiation, the choice is yours :wink:
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Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:56 pm

Piratis do you not realize all your arguements are based on hollow threats

Application of legality and human rights are a threat for you? In the same way that medicine is a thread to bacteria you mean?


Once you have arranged for a change in power then go ahead and use it blow all the TCs to kingdom come and live happily ever after in your utopian Greek state.


I never said or threatened to perform ethnic cleansing against TCs or that I want a Greek state in Cyprus. This is what you did. You ethnically cleansed 200.000 GCs in order to create a Turkish state.

But for now you either accept the current status quo like all Tassos followers or try to negotiate a solution be it recognized division or unificiation, the choice is yours


As long as you are not willing to negotiate anything that would lead to unification then the only option we have is to wait and act in ways that will help Turkey to change her position.
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:33 pm

Piratis
Application of legality and human rights are a threat for you? In the same way that medicine is a thread to bacteria you mean?


The change in power you constantly refer to is the force that can be used to regain control of the north, you have expressed this on many occassions dont try to distort things. If you want to impose your version of legality and human rights without war then go ahead and dont hold back do all you can hoping that it will get you what you want a Greek Cypriot state with TCs has a minority. If you are powerful enough to do this then be my guest.

I never said or threatened to perform ethnic cleansing against TCs or that I want a Greek state in Cyprus. This is what you did. You ethnically cleansed 200.000 GCs in order to create a Turkish state.


You are bitter at the fact the GCs were not able to clens the whole island and make Cyprus greek and that we suceeded in saving our lives and taking only part of the island for ourselves as a safe haven away from any GC hidden agendas. Now even today it is still not clear if you guys have come to your senses and abandoned whatever dreams you have of Greekifying this island.

As long as you are not willing to negotiate anything that would lead to unification then the only option we have is to wait and act in ways that will help Turkey to change her position.


We have and will negotiate its not us that is running away from the negotiating table making all the excuses under the sun but your elected leader you value so highly. Your seeing and accepting reality is only a reflection of your own intelligence, try harder Piratis I know deep down you to accept the realities of our situation but you are to proud to accept that both sides are to blame and could do more towards finding a solution.
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Postby bg_turk » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:11 pm

Piratis wrote:I can understand that for you things like human rights and international laws should not be considered so you can continue your tradition of stealing what others have created. However allow us to support progress. And be sure that there is no way that you will manage to legalize the crimes that you continue to do against us.

I do not support the "stealing" of what you have "created", in fact I fully support the recent initiative by the TRNC to restore unfairly confiscated land to its original owners.
I fully support your individual rights and the individual rights of the other law-abiding GCs to return to their ancestral lands within the framework of a sovereign Republic of Northern Cyprus.
Unfortunately, your legallistic approach is not humanitarian in nature, you exploit the tradegy of many individuals who have been unfairly displaced, in order to support your political smear campaign against the TRNC.
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Postby Main_Source » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:34 pm

If the 'TRNC' let all the refugees return to their homes...would they also give them the right to vote?
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Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:22 pm

I fully support your individual rights and the individual rights of the other law-abiding GCs to return to their ancestral lands within the framework of a sovereign Republic of Northern Cyprus.


And who are you to decide? The people who that area belongs should be the ones to democratically decide if they want a separate state on their own land and not you. The great majority of the people of that area do not want a separate state, do not want the settlers and they do not want the Turkish troops.

So what you say is: "I support democracy as long as what happens is what we want" ... ridiculous.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:35 pm

The change in power you constantly refer to is the force that can be used to regain control of the north, you have expressed this on many occassions dont try to distort things.

And? Doesn't every country that is under an illegal occupation have the right to fight to regain its own land??

If you want to impose your version of legality and human rights

"my version"? What is legal in Cyprus is what is agreed with 1960 agreements. There is no other version. As far as "my version" of human rights it can be found here: http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html what is your version?

hoping that it will get you what you want a Greek Cypriot state with TCs has a minority.

What we want is a Cypriot state. And yes, since TCs are 18% they are a minority.

You are bitter at the fact the GCs were not able to clens the whole island and make Cyprus greek and that we suceeded in saving our lives and taking only part of the island for ourselves as a safe haven away from any GC hidden agendas.

The fact is that you did the ethnic cleansing, and you have no other excuse other than imagine "hidden agendas" in order to excuse your crimes.


Now even today it is still not clear if you guys have come to your senses and abandoned whatever dreams you have of Greekifying this island.

The only one who has such dreams is you.

We have and will negotiate its not us that is running away from the negotiating table making all the excuses under the sun but your elected leader you value so highly. Your seeing and accepting reality is only a reflection of your own intelligence, try harder Piratis I know deep down you to accept the realities of our situation but you are to proud to accept that both sides are to blame and could do more towards finding a solution.

So if both sides are to blame then why should you get more and we should get less than what was agreed in 1960?
I accept the realities. The reality is that Turkey is illegally occupying part of my country.
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