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Postby Piratis » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:54 am

Forget about Cyprus, forget about history and conflicts, stop being racist for a moment, and imagine that you are given the job of creating the new constitution for people living in an area.

How would you do it without using double standards?

This means that you would accept your constitution to be applied in any country including your own whatever that is (RoC, Greece, Turkey, "TRNC", Bulgaria, UK etc).

What principles would you use? (e.g. democracy). What methods would you use? (e.g. ethnic cleansing)

You can say whatever, as long you do not use double standards.

Can you do it? Or whatever you say is based on double standards and all you care is how to gain on the loss of the other?
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Postby zan » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:37 pm

I suppose your trying to get us to say “one man, one vote” then you will come back and say, there! You Turks are only 18% of the population etc, etc. It’s quiet simple if you take out the history and the conflicts and that’s what a hell of a lot of people are doing. Wrongly!!!

Take out the conflict and all you have to do is leave things alone. If it aint broke don’t try to fix it.
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Postby bg_turk » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:17 pm

I like the Bulgarian constitution:

We, the Members of the Seventh Grand National Assembly, guided by our desire to express the will of the people of Bulgaria, by pledging our loyalty to the universal human values of liberty, peace, humanism, equality, justice and tolerance; by elevating as the uppermost principle the rights, dignity and security of the individual; in awareness of our irrevocable duty to guard the national and state integrity of Bulgaria, hereby promulgate our resolve to create a democratic, law-governed and social state, by establishing this Constitution.

Article 1 [State]

(1) Bulgaria is a republic with a parliamentary form of government.
(2) The entire power of the state shall derive from the people. The people shall exercise this power directly and through the bodies established by this Constitution.
(3) No part of the people, no political party nor any other organization, state institution, or individual shall usurp the expression of the popular sovereignty.

Article 2 [Territorial Integrity]

(1) The Republic of Bulgaria is an integral state with local self-government. No autonomous territorial formations shall exist.
(2) The territorial integrity of the Republic of Bulgaria is inviolable.

Article 3 [Language]
Bulgarian is the official language of the Republic.

Article 4 [Rule of Law, Human Rights]

(1) The Republic of Bulgaria is a law-governed state. It is governed by the Constitution and the laws of the country.
(2) The Republic of Bulgaria shall guarantee the life, dignity, and rights of the individual and shall create conditions conducive to the free development of the individual and the civil society.

Article 5 [Supreme Law]

(1) The Constitution is the supreme law, and no other law shall contravene it.
(2) The provisions of the Constitution shall apply directly.
(3) No one shall be convicted for action or inaction which at the time it was committed did not constitute a crime.
(4) Any international instruments which have been ratified by the constitutionally established procedure, promulgated, and come into force with respect to the Republic of Bulgaria, shall be considered part of the domestic legislation of the country. They shall supersede any domestic legislation stipulating otherwise.

Article 6 [Human Dignity, Freedom, Equality]

(1) All persons are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
(2) All citizens shall be equal before the law. There shall be no privileges or restriction of rights on the grounds of race, nationality, ethnic self-identity, sex, origin, religion, education, opinion, political affiliation, personal or social status, or property status.

Article 13 [Religion]

(1) The practicing of any religion is free.
(2) The religious institutions shall be separate from the state.

(3) Eastern Orthodox Christianity is considered the traditional religion in the Republic of Bulgaria.
(4) Religious institutions and communities and religious beliefs shall not be used to political ends.


Article 36 [Language]

(1) The study and use of the Bulgarian language is a right and obligation of every Bulgarian citizen.
(2) Citizens whose mother tongue is not Bulgarian shall have the right to study and use their own language alongside the compulsory study of the Bulgarian language.
(3) The situations in which only the official language shall be used shall be established by law.

Article 37 [Freedom of Religion and Belief]

(1) The freedom of conscience, the freedom of thought, and the choice of religion and of religious or atheistic views are inviolable. The state shall assist the maintenance of tolerance and respect among the believers from different denominations, and among believers and non-believers.
(2) The freedom of conscience and religion shall not be practiced to the detriment of national security, public order, public health and morals, or of the rights and freedoms of others.

Article 38 [Freedom of Opinion]
No one shall be persecuted or restricted in his rights because of his views, nor shall be obligated or forced to provide information about his own or another person's views.

Article 54 [Culture, Creativity]

(1) Everyone shall have the right to avail himself of the national and universal human cultural values and to develop his own culture in accordance with his ethnic self-identification, which shall be recognized and guaranteed by the law.
(2) Artistic, scientific, and technological creativity shall be recognized and guaranteed by the law.
(3) The state shall protect all inventors' rights, copyrights, and related rights.



As far as states being based on "ethnic cleansing", I do not believe it is correct and ideally it should not happen, but in reallity every state in the Balkans and Asia Minor is based on some form of ethnic cleansing (except the Republic of Macedonia maybe). Any nation-state requires some kind of ethnic homogeneity in order to be able to function, otherwise the country would not be stable, due to our primitive mentalities of fighting with each other, while the rest of the world is harnessing the power of unity and diversity.
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Postby bg_turk » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:54 pm

For comparison here is the Greek constitution:

In the name of the Holy and Consubstantial and Indivisible Trinity, the Fifth Constitutional Assembly of Greece votes:
Part I Fundamental Provisions


Section I Form of Government


Article 1 [Parliamentary Democracy]

(1) Greece is a Parliamentary Democracy with a President as Head of State.
(2) Popular sovereignty is the foundation on which the form of government rests.
(3) All powers are derived from the People, exist for the benefit of the People and the Nation, and are exercised in the manner determined by the Constitution.

Article 2 [Human Dignity]

(1) Respect for and protection of human dignity constitute the primary obligation of the State.
(2) Greece, following the generally accepted rules of international law, seeks consolidation of peace and justice and fostering of friendly relations among Peoples and States.

Section II Relations between church and state


Article 3 [Relations of Church and State]


(1) The prevailing religion in Greece is that of the Eastern Orthodox Church of Christ. The Orthodox Church of Greece acknowledging as its head Our Lord Jesus Christ is indissolubly united in doctrine with the Great Church of Constantinople and every other Church of Christ of the same doctrine. It observes steadfastly, as they do, the holy apostolic and synodical canons and the holy tradition. It is autocephalous, exercising its sovereign rights independently of any other church, and is administered by the Holy Synod of Bishops and the Parliament Holy Synod which emanates from the former and is constituted in accordance with the Constitutional Chart of the Church and the provisions of the Patriarchal Document of 29 June 1850 and the Synodal Deed of 4 September 1928.
(2) The religious status prevailing in certain parts of the State is not contrary to the provisions of the aforegoing paragraph.
(3)The text of the Holy Scriptures shall be maintained unaltered. The official translation thereof into any other linguistic form, without the sanction of the Autocephalous Church of Greece and the Great Church of Christ in Constantinople, is prohibited.


Part II Individual and Social Rights


Article 4 [Citizenship and Equality]

(1) All Greeks are equal before the law.
(2) Greek men and Greek women have equal rights and obligations.
(3) Greek citizens are those who possess the qualifications specified by the law. No one shall be deprived of his citizenship save in the case of persons assuming on their own free will another citizenship or joining a service in another country which is contrary to the national interests, in accordance with the conditions and procedure laid down by the law in detail.
(4) Only Greek citizens shall be eligible for public service save in those cases where exceptions are introduced by specific legislation.
(5) Greek citizens shall, without discrimination, contribute towards sharing the burden of public expenditure according to their ability.
(6) Every Greek able to bear arms shall be obliged to assist in the defence of the nation, as provided by law.
(7) Titles of nobility or distinction shall neither be conferred upon, nor recognized in Greek citizens.

It is pretty bad because first of all religious references abound everywhere, not appropriate for a secular constitution, and second of all it uses the term "greeks", which can be interpreted in its narrow ethnic sense, and not "greek citizens" as in the sense of all citizens of greece. Article 4 can be interpreted as if greeks in Greece are equal but turks in Greece (who cannot even call themselves turks according to this constitution), do not necessarily have the same rights.


For comparison the preamble of the Turkish constitution (and the rest of it which is pretty long) abound in "patriotism" but it never talks of turks alone but of turkish citizens.
In line with the concept of nationalism and the reforms and principles introduced by the founder of the Republic of Turkey, Atatürk, the immortal leader and the unrivalled hero, this Constitution, which affirms the eternal existence of the Turkish nation and motherland and the indivisible unity of the Turkish state, embodies;

The determination to safeguard the everlasting existence, prosperity and material and spiritual well-being of the Republic of Turkey, and to attain the standards of contemporary civilization as an honourable member with equal rights of the family of world nations;

The understanding of the absolute supremacy of the will of the nation and of the fact that sovereignty is vested fully and unconditionally in the Turkish nation and that no individual or body empowered to exercise this sovereignty in the name of the nation shall deviate from liberal democracy and the legal system instituted according to its requirements;

The principle of the separation of powers, which does not imply an order of precedence among the organs of state, but refers solely to the exercising of certain state powers and discharging of duties which are limited to cooperation and division of functions, and which accepts the supremacy of the Constitution and the law;

The recognition that no protection shall be accorded to an activity contrary to Turkish national interests, the principle of the indivisibility of the existence of Turkey with its state and territory, Turkish historical and moral values or the nationalism, principles, reforms and modernism of Atatürk and that, as required by the principle of secularism, there shall be no interference whatsoever by sacred religious feelings in state affairs and politics; the acknowledgment that it is the birthright of every Turkish citizen to lead an honourable life and to develop his or her material and spiritual assets under the aegis of national culture, civilization and the rule of law, through the exercise of the fundamental rights and freedoms set forth in this Constitution in conformity with the requirements of equality and social justice;

The recognition that all Turkish citizens are united in national honour and pride, in national joy and grief, in their rights and duties regarding national existence, in blessings and in burdens, and in every manifestation of national life, and that they have the right to demand a peaceful life based on absolute respect for one another’s rights and freedoms, mutual love and fellowship and the desire for and belief in “Peace at home, peace in the world”.

This Constitution, which is to be embraced with the ideas, beliefs, and resolutions it embodies below should be interpreted and implemented accordingly, thus commanding respect for, and absolute loyalty to, its letter and spirit.

Is entrusted by the Turkish nation to the patriotism and nationalism of its democracy-loving sons and daughters.



What is disappointing in both constitutions is that they fail to acknowledge ethnic diversity and none guarantees the right to use the mother tongue like the Bulgarian constitution does.
Last edited by bg_turk on Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby bg_turk » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:04 pm

But the best of all in terms of acknowledging ethnicity is the Macedonian constitution:

[Preamble]
Taking as starting points the historical, cultural, spiritual and statehood heritage of the Macedonian people and their struggle over centuries for national and social freedom as well as the creation of their own state, and particularly the traditions of statehood and legality of the Krushevo Republic and the historic decisions of the Anti-Fascist Assembly of the People's Liberation of Macedonia, together with the constitutional and legal continuity of the Macedonian state as a sovereign republic within Federal Yugoslavia and freely manifested will of the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia in the referendum of 8 Sep 1991, as well as the historical fact that Macedonia is established as a national state of the Macedonian people, in which full equality as citizens and permanent co-existence with the Macedonian people is provided for Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Romanics and other nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia, and intent on:
- the establishment of the Republic of Macedonia as a sovereign and independent state, as well as a civil and democratic one;
- the establishment and consolidation of the rule of law as a fundamental system of government;
- the guaranteeing of human rights, citizens' freedoms and ethnic equality;
- the provision of peace and a common home for the Macedonian people with the nationalities living in the Republic of Macedonia; and on
- the provision of social justice, economic well-being and prosperity in the life of the individual and the community,
the Assembly of the Republic of Macedonia adopts the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia.

Chapter I Basic Provisions


Article 1

(1) The Republic of Macedonia is a sovereign, independent, democratic and social state.
(2) The sovereignty of the Republic of Macedonia is indivisible, inalienable, and nontransferable.

Article 2

(1) Sovereignty in the Republic of Macedonia derives from the citizens and belongs to the citizens.
(2) The citizens of the Republic of Macedonia exercise their authority through democratically elected Representatives through referendum and through other forms of direct expression.

Article 3

(1) The territory of the Republic of Macedonia is indivisible and inviolable.
(2) The existing borders of the Republic of Macedonia are inviolable.
(3) The borders of the Republic of Macedonia can only be changed in accordance with the Constitution and on the principle of free will, as well in accordance with generally accepted international norms.
(4) The Republic of Macedonia has no territorial pretensions towards any neighboring state.

Article 7

(1) The Macedonian language, written using its Cyrillic alphabet, is the official language in the Republic of Macedonia.
(2) In the units of local self-government where the majority of the inhabitants belong to a nationality, in addition to the Macedonian language and Cyrillic alphabet, their language and alphabet are also in official use, in a manner determined by law.
(3) In the units of local self-government where there is a considerable number of inhabitants belonging to a nationality, their language and alphabet are also in official use, in addition to the Macedonian language and Cyrillic alphabet, under conditions and in a manner determined by law.

Article 19

(1) The freedom of religious confession is guaranteed.
(2) The right to express one's faith freely and publicly, individually or with others is guaranteed.
(3) The Macedonian Orthodox Church and other religious communities and groups are free to establish schools and other social and charitable institutions, by ways of a procedure regulated by law.


Article 78

(1) The Assembly establishes a Council for Inter-Ethnic Relations.
(2) The Council consists of the President of the Assembly and two members each form the ranks of the Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs and Romanies, as well as two members from the ranks of other nationalities in Macedonia.
(3) The President of the Assembly is President of the Council.
(4) The Assembly elects the members of the Council.
(5) The Council considers issues of inter-ethnic relations in the Republic and makes appraisals and proposals for their solution.
(6) The Assembly is obliged to take into consideration the appraisals and proposals of the Council and to make decisions regarding them.



On the other hand the RoC constitution seems to be quite obssessed on the question of ethnicity, and forces everyone to be either GC or TC:

Part 1 General Provisions

Article 1 []
The State of Cyprus is an independent and sovereign Republic with a presidential regime, the President being Greek and the Vice-President being Turk elected by the Greek and the Turkish Communities of Cyprus respectively as hereinafter in this Constitution provided.

Article 2 []
For the purposes of this Constitution:
(1) the Greek Community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Greek origin and whose mother tongue is Greek or who share the Greek cultural traditions or who are members of the Greek-Orthodox Church;
(2) the Turkish Community comprises all citizens of the Republic who are of Turkish origin and whose mother tongue is Turkish or who share the Turkish cultural traditions or who are Moslems;
(3) citizens of the Republic who do not come within the provisions of paragraph (1) or (2) of this Article shall, within three months of the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution, opt to belong to either the Greek or the Turkish Community as individuals, but, if they belong to a religious group, shall so opt as a religious group and upon such option they shall be deemed to be members of such Community:
Provided that any citizen of the Republic who belongs to such a religious group may choose not to abide by the option of such group and by a written and signed declaration submitted within one month of the date of such option to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers opt to belong to the Community other than that to which such group shall be deemed to belong:
Provided further that if an option of such religious group is not accepted on the ground that its members are below the requisite number any member of such group may within one month of the date of the refusal of acceptance of such option opt in the aforesaid manner as an individual to which Community he would like to belong.
For the purposes of this paragraph a " religious group " means a group of persons ordinarily resident in Cyprus professing the same religion and either belonging to the same rite or being subject to the same jurisdiction thereof the number of whom, on the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution, exceeds one thousand out of which at least five hundred become on such date citizens of the Republic;
(4) a person who becomes a citizen of the Republic at any time after three months of the date of the coming into operation of this Constitution shall exercise the option provided in paragraph
(3) of this Article within three months of the date of his so becoming a citizen;
(5) a Greek or a Turkish citizen of the Republic who comes within the provisions of paragraph (1) or (2) of this Article may cease to belong to the Community of which he is a member and belong to the other Community upon -
(a) a written and signed declaration by such citizen to the effect that he desires such change, submitted to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers;
(b) the approval of the Communal Chamber of such other Community;
(6) any individual or any religious group deemed to belong to either the Greek or the Turkish Community under the provisions of paragraph (3) of this Article may cease to belong to such Community and be deemed to belong to the other Community upon -
(a) a written and signed declaration by such individual or religious group to the effect that such change is desired, submitted to the appropriate officer of the Republic and to the Presidents of the Greek and the Turkish Communal Chambers;
(b) the approval of the Communal Chamber of such other Community;
(7) (a) a married woman shall belong to the Community to which her husband belongs.
(b) a male or female child under the age of twenty-one who is not married shall belong to the Community to which his or her father belongs, or, if the father is unknown and he or she has not been adopted, to the Community to which his or her mother belongs.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:14 am

Bg_Turk, I agree with you that the Bulgarian one is the best.
I am an atheist, so it goes without saying that I do not agree either with the part in the Greek constitution that talks about religion. I also agree with you that it should talk about Greek citizen to be 100% clear.

Regarding the constitution of RoC I again agree.

Now every country is different. But in the end we are human beings living in one state. Wouldn't it be better if Greece and Turkey adopted a constitution very similar to the one of Bulgaria?

It’s quiet simple if you take out the history and the conflicts and that’s what a hell of a lot of people are doing. Wrongly!!!

What some people did wrongly in the past should not be an excuse for even more wrong doings. If we follow this rout then how will we ever see a better future? There are some principles (see Bulgarian constitution) that are universal. These principles create equality among the people and peace. Anything that is not based on these principles can be a source for conflict and hate which can lead to a not so happy future for any of us.

Do you think the constidution of Bulgaria could not be applied in UK or France or Australia, or Russia or Turkey or Greece ...
And if it could be applied to all those other countries, why a similar one could not be applied in Cyprus?

Bulgaria is actually a case that it is closer to the situetion we have have in Cyprus than any other country. And it is a succesful case also.
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Postby bg_turk » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:13 pm

Piratis wrote:And if it could be applied to all those other countries, why a similar one could not be applied in Cyprus?

Bulgaria is actually a case that it is closer to the situetion we have have in Cyprus than any other country. And it is a succesful case also.

The Bulgarian ethnic model was successful not because of the constitution, which is simply a useless peace of paper, it was "successful" because we the minorities paid the highest price for the achievement of peace and stability.
To apply this model to Cyprus would require a serios and significant sacrifice from TCypriots, which they will never be willing to make. Having said that I think it would be a good idea to implement the Bulgarian model in the TRNC.


http://samvak.tripod.com/pp92.html

Sam: Why did the Communist government seek to "Bulgarize" the Turkish minority? Can you describe the measures taken, how many people they affected, how did the Bulgarian population react to them, etc.? Why did 300,000 Turks leave Bulgaria as refugees?

Vladimir: There are several hypotheses regarding the so-called "revival process" among the academic community. No one found official document issued by the Central Committee of the Communist Party or the State Council of the former People's Republic of Bulgaria in this matter. It is worthwhile to mention two versions.

The first one points to Moscow as the principal inspiration. Gorbachev, the Soviet leader at the time, was interested in removing the last Bulgarian Communist President Todor Jivkov during the first stage of his "Perestroika", because Jivkov was one of its radical opponents. The brutal assimilation of the Turkish population was intended to provoke active international opprobrium and international isolation of Jivkov's regime, leading to his ousting.

The second version is related to strict internal reasons, the principal one being the ethnic lack of balance within Bulgarian society in mid 80's, the outcome of the strong negative growth rate of the Bulgarian ethnicity and the inverse positive one of the Turks and the other Muslims (Pomaks, Gypsies, etc.) The ethnic cleansing aimed to maintain the existing ethnic profile after the Politburo estimated that the presence of more than 1.5 million Muslims would certainly lead to official demands for autonomy and later - to a Bulgarian-Turkish federation.

I share the opinion that the "revival process" was product of a small group of political non-intelligent and uneducated adventurers who initiated an act whose significance they did not understand. Jivkov and his most loyal collaborators from among the Politburo members like M.Balev, D.Stoyanov, P. Kobadinski, Al. Lilov, etc., decided to overcome the deep crisis of the Communist regime by diverting public attention towards the Turks and the other minorities.

The measures taken were organized and implemented by the police and the army. After the violent antigovernment demonstrations on April 1986, the Politburo created Special Forces for struggle against the collective resistance. As a whole, the measures included:

=Changing Turkish-Arab names into Slavic ones;

=Prohibition of speaking mother tongues (especially the Turkish language) in public areas;

=Re-settlement of the Turkish-Muslim minority from the so called "mixed regions" in areas dominated by a Bulgarian majority with the aim of breaking the compact character of the Turkish community;

=Limiting the freedom of Islamic worship;

=Organizing social pressure upon the Turkish minority by maintaining a high level of unemployment and aiming to push them to migrate to Turkey.

The above mentioned measures affected approximately 1.5 million people. The majority of the affected minority groups were forced into accepting the imposed measures. Some Turkish intellectuals collaborated with the authorities, others founded an illegal resistant movement that gave rise, following the fall of the Communist regime, to the current political party of Bulgarian Turks - the Movement for Rights and Freedoms (MRF).

Despite several demonstrations planned by the Communist rule in support of the "revival process", the Bulgarian population sympathized with its compatriots from the minorities. In general, Bulgarians perceived the events as a national nightmare, whose resonance instinctively reinforced dissidents' resistance.

On April-May 1986, about 300 thousand Turks leaved the country. Most of them refused to change their names, others were forced to seek a job in neighbouring Turkey. Unfortunately, the economic reason for Turkish migration is still there. Between 20 and 30 thousands of Turks are still leaving Bulgaria annually.

Sam: The Turkish population still constitutes c. 9% of the population and are politically often represented in the opposition (though not currently). Are the current relations with ethnic Bulgarians tense? Is the past still alive? Any prognosis?

Vladimir: The Turkish community is approximately 8-10% of the population and as such remains the biggest minority group. It makes important efforts towards gradual integration in Bulgarian society by focusing on surmounting the negative consequences of the "revival process" on the legislative, economic, political and psychological levels. The Bulgarian parliament voted a series of laws for restoring Turk-Arab names through an easy administrative procedure. In 1998, at the MRF's insistence, parliament approved the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities.

Despite the MRF becoming the third national political entity, with outstanding organizational presence, the nationalist prejudices of the Union of Democratic Forces (UDF) and the Bulgarian Socialist Party (BSP) prevented the establishment of real partnership with the party of the ethnic Turks. So, the post-Communist bipolar system based on confrontation marginalized MRF and pushed it away from real involvement in the political power. The concealed political tension reached its culmination when in 1991 BSP referred to the Constitutional Court MRF's legal status and its existence and when in 2001 Ivan Kostov, the former UDF leader and Prime Minister declared that MRF is a curse for Bulgaria.

On 17 June 2001 the ex-king Simeon won the parliamentary elections and demonstrated a clever style of coalition-building and partnering. For the first time MRF entered a ruling coalition as a result of an official agreement on the basis of equal rights with the leading party. The Turks received 2 ministers, 5 deputy ministers, 3 governors (including of the capital Sofia) and 8 deputy governors.

This formula can serve as a precedent for political practice in Southeastern Europe. I exclude the Macedonian case because I am doubtful about its future. I can compare the current Bulgarian construct with the Bosnian-Croatian federation not by way of legal status, but as a philosophy for multi-ethnic co-existence. Despite the disintegration of former Yugoslavia, it seemed to be a successful working formula in Southeastern Europe because of the European standards with regards to the requirements of the protection of human rights and the possibilities for attracting investments from the Moslem countries.

I think that with MRF's involvement in power, Bulgaria has taken a serious step towards solving the problems of the Turkish minority. At the same time, I guess, aggravating the problems of the other big minority in the country - the Gypsies.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:44 pm

To apply this model to Cyprus would require a serios and significant sacrifice from TCypriots, which they will never be willing to make. Having said that I think it would be a good idea to implement the Bulgarian model in the TRNC.

The point of this thread was to try to forget about your racism and propose something without using double standards. Apparently this is not an easy task for some people.

While you accept what is generally good, you insist on the violation of the human rights of 100s of thousands of people because of the race they belong.
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Postby bg_turk » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:02 pm

Piratis wrote:The point of this thread was to try to forget about your racism and propose something without using double standards. Apparently this is not an easy task for some people.

You were the one who started it by proposing that this constitution should be implemented in teh case of Cyprus (or maybe you got the idea from zan)

While you accept what is generally good, you insist on the violation of the human rights of 100s of thousands of people because of the race they belong.

No, I insist on a fair, democratic and completely reformed Republic of Northern Cyprus, which would allow GC to return to their homes and live there as equal citizens.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:16 pm

No, I insist on a fair, democratic and completely reformed Republic of Northern Cyprus, which would allow GC to return to their homes and live there as equal citizens.

This is a self contradicting statement. The Greek Cypriots are the majority of the northern part of Cyprus. Even if we assume that this part was separate, if democracy existed then "TRNC" would have never even be declared since GCs would not have accepted that.

The "TRNC" would not exist with democracy and without ethnic cleansing.

It is illegally formed by grossly violating the human rights of 100s of thousands of people. For this reason it will only exist as an illegal pseudo state and nothing more than that.
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