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Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby observer » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Paphitis wrote:
observer wrote:Yes but what can you point to and say ... by joining the EU this has changed


The political situation means it is advantageous and vital from a security point of view that the RoC be a member of the EU.



Another thing is the bailouts so we do actually get some financial support from the EU. The methodology might be wrong, but nevertheless, they are trying to help the RoC reform and streamline the economy. They are not unconditional handouts though.


1. The EU is not a security organisation. NATO is. Turkey is a member of NATO. Cyprus isn't.
2. Are you claiming that the RoC economy is stronger now than it was in 2004? If you are, I think you won't have many people who agree with you. If you're not, then you are talking about an uncertain future. Shouldn't Cyprus be better off after being in the EU for 10 years not worse off?

Finally, and sorry to push the point, but consider:
Turkey became a member of the Council of Europe in 1949. It still is.
Turkey became a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation in 1973. It still is.
Turkey signed a Customs Agreement with 1995. It is still in force.
Turkey was not a full EU member in 2004. It still isn’t

So where are the great benefits with reference to Turkey that your powerful position in the EU have brought you?
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:18 pm

observer wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
observer wrote:Yes but what can you point to and say ... by joining the EU this has changed


The political situation means it is advantageous and vital from a security point of view that the RoC be a member of the EU.



Another thing is the bailouts so we do actually get some financial support from the EU. The methodology might be wrong, but nevertheless, they are trying to help the RoC reform and streamline the economy. They are not unconditional handouts though.


1. The EU is not a security organisation. NATO is. Turkey is a member of NATO. Cyprus isn't.
2. Are you claiming that the RoC economy is stronger now than it was in 2004? If you are, I think you won't have many people who agree with you. If you're not, then you are talking about an uncertain future. Shouldn't Cyprus be better off after being in the EU for 10 years not worse off?

Finally, and sorry to push the point, but consider:
Turkey became a member of the Council of Europe in 1949. It still is.
Turkey became a member of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation in 1973. It still is.
Turkey signed a Customs Agreement with 1995. It is still in force.
Turkey was not a full EU member in 2004. It still isn’t

So where are the great benefits with reference to Turkey that your powerful position in the EU have brought you?


Yes I know NATO is the Security Organization and the EU is a political construct.

The EU is still a powerful entity with enormous clout and just by being a member we do derive a great deal of security and political stability from their over reaching umbrella. Turkey can't do anything, and it certainly would not be able to advance and try and take the entire island even if they wanted to (not that I think it's possible).

Turkey basically has nowhere to go with its illegally constructed "trnc".

Indonesia was a member of all those organizations as well whilst they occupied East Timor up until their liberation.
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby observer » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Piritis

Yes I know NATO is the Security Organization and the EU is a political construct.

The EU is still a powerful entity with enormous clout and just by being a member we do derive a great deal of security and political stability from their over reaching umbrella. Turkey can't do anything, and it certainly would not be able to advance and try and take the entire island even if they wanted to (not that I think it's possible).

Turkey basically has nowhere to go with its illegally constructed "trnc".

Indonesia was a member of all those organizations as well whilst they occupied East Timor up until their liberation.


1. Between 1974 and 2004 Turkey never made any attempt to advance and take over the whole island. Why should it have done so between 2004 and 2014 if RoC had stayed outside the EU? Not a valid reason for RoC joining the EU.
2. Turkey has realistically never had anywhere to go with TRNC other than following an agreement between TCs and GCs. RoC, by joiningthe EU, has put off any such agreement into the far distant future. If you want a unified island, joining the EU was probably a mistake.
3. Indonesia was never a member of the Council of Europe, never had a customs agreement with the EU and has never applied to join the EU. Not sure about the OECD. But I know what you mean. However, I still don't see its relevance unless you believe a EU armed force is going to take up arms against Turkey or its forces in Cyprus. I really don't see it - do you? If this was the reason RoC joined the EU, it was a mistake.
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:06 pm

observer wrote:Piritis

Yes I know NATO is the Security Organization and the EU is a political construct.

The EU is still a powerful entity with enormous clout and just by being a member we do derive a great deal of security and political stability from their over reaching umbrella. Turkey can't do anything, and it certainly would not be able to advance and try and take the entire island even if they wanted to (not that I think it's possible).

Turkey basically has nowhere to go with its illegally constructed "trnc".

Indonesia was a member of all those organizations as well whilst they occupied East Timor up until their liberation.


1. Between 1974 and 2004 Turkey never made any attempt to advance and take over the whole island. Why should it have done so between 2004 and 2014 if RoC had stayed outside the EU? Not a valid reason for RoC joining the EU.
2. Turkey has realistically never had anywhere to go with TRNC other than following an agreement between TCs and GCs. RoC, by joiningthe EU, has put off any such agreement into the far distant future. If you want a unified island, joining the EU was probably a mistake.
3. Indonesia was never a member of the Council of Europe, never had a customs agreement with the EU and has never applied to join the EU. Not sure about the OECD. But I know what you mean. However, I still don't see its relevance unless you believe a EU armed force is going to take up arms against Turkey or its forces in Cyprus. I really don't see it - do you? If this was the reason RoC joined the EU, it was a mistake.


As I said before, it is political!

It's the only protection we have from Turkey and I am talking from a political sense not military! The military security requirements may be met in some part by Israel as well as tapping into their massive political clout in Washington.

It seems ok for the TCs to demand security guarantees from Turkey but is it not ok for the RoC to be under the EU's vast umbrella and seek alliances with neighboring countries like Israel?

No one ever thought East Timor would be liberated but it was!
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby observer » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:37 pm

I think your fighting your own shadow. For 20 years Turkey made no move to advance any further beyond the Green Line. For the following 10 years it would not have done so whether Cyprus was in the EU or not. In view oftheir past history it is understandable for TCs to want security guarantees. GCs, arguably, still have the security guarantee of Greece written into the original Cypriot constitution. You can have them from whoever else you want, and if you want them from the EU no problem. No-one is thinking of invading RoC save in your imagination.

The real point of whether or not it was a mistake for RoC to join the EU is financial.

For Germany and other industrialised countries, having RoC and other weak economies in the EU it is a good thing. The presence of weak economies means that their currencies (inside the Euro or out) are made a little less expensive so that they can export more, and have a stronger economy with fewer people unemployed. Being tied up with more powerful countries is bad for RoC since its currency (in this case you only have the Euro to consider) is at a higher value than it would have been if you'd kept the Cyprus pound. This makes it more difficult to export whatever you do produce, makes prices in the shops higher, and unemployment greater.

It's not as though RoC is a unique case - Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy all have weak economies, made weaker by being tied to the stronger economies of Northern Europe.
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Get Real! » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:12 am

observer wrote:For Germany and other industrialised countries, having RoC and other weak economies in the EU it is a good thing.
The presence of weak economies means that their currencies (inside the Euro or out) are made a little less expensive so that they can export more, and have a stronger economy with fewer people unemployed. Being tied up with more powerful countries is bad for RoC since its currency (in this case you only have the Euro to consider) is at a higher value than it would have been if you'd kept the Cyprus pound. This makes it more difficult to export whatever you do produce, makes prices in the shops higher, and unemployment greater.

It's not as though RoC is a unique case - Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy all have weak economies, made weaker by being tied to the stronger economies of Northern Europe.

Cyprus didn't have a weak economy back then... maybe you meant a small economy.

And if you consider Spain and Italy to be weak then what chances would Turkey have in the EU with its 3rd world GDP p/capita! :lol:
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Paphitis » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:58 am

observer wrote:I think your fighting your own shadow. For 20 years Turkey made no move to advance any further beyond the Green Line. For the following 10 years it would not have done so whether Cyprus was in the EU or not. In view oftheir past history it is understandable for TCs to want security guarantees. GCs, arguably, still have the security guarantee of Greece written into the original Cypriot constitution. You can have them from whoever else you want, and if you want them from the EU no problem. No-one is thinking of invading RoC save in your imagination.

The real point of whether or not it was a mistake for RoC to join the EU is financial.

For Germany and other industrialised countries, having RoC and other weak economies in the EU it is a good thing. The presence of weak economies means that their currencies (inside the Euro or out) are made a little less expensive so that they can export more, and have a stronger economy with fewer people unemployed. Being tied up with more powerful countries is bad for RoC since its currency (in this case you only have the Euro to consider) is at a higher value than it would have been if you'd kept the Cyprus pound. This makes it more difficult to export whatever you do produce, makes prices in the shops higher, and unemployment greater.

It's not as though RoC is a unique case - Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy all have weak economies, made weaker by being tied to the stronger economies of Northern Europe.


Turkey has already invaded the RoC in case you have not noticed!

And the Guarantees from Greece are not worth the paper they're written on. That's why we need the EU.

Guarantees from Turkey is like having a gun to your head. Basically, the security needs of the majority are not addressed. In fact there is a constant threat because Turkey can never be trusted in light of recent history.
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Mustiejodu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:39 am

Joining the eu has made no difference to turkey politically. If you recall when it was their turn to lead the union turkey did not recognise your authirity and froze any interaction.in fact eu regret having brought you into their family. You have not brought any benefit to the eu or to yourselves. Most definately it was not for military reasons as turkey is part of NATO and your not.you are correct in saying it was for political clout but that has back fired. Turkey knows that they will never be accepted into the eu and all eu is doing is dangling a carrot. They are playing the same game with eu and making the most out of the situation. They may not be in the eu but they are doing business with Europe, they are using the application to eu as their le average for business and it works. They are well aware of their boundaries.they have clearly shown that they can progress without eu and their economy whilst yours and Greece is dwindling within the eu.they have not left themselves relying on one entity like you have. They do business with the whole world and they are a growing economy.yes I would agree that since cyprus joined it has actually confirmed that turkey will never join so it's a blessing in disguise so basically what it has done is exactly the same mistake you lot done in 1974 by allowing Sampson in power to show your true colours. Eu has made a mistake where they could dangle a carrot and keep turkey under a leash by bringing cyprus in they have clearly shown their intentions and this has had a reverse affect :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Paphitis » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:00 pm

Go shag a sheep pigeon shit for brains!
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Re: Was it a mistake to join the eu?

Postby Mustiejodu » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:24 pm

I agree with you can't you take being correct? Yes cyprus joining eu has shown turkey will never join the eu! I whole heartedly agree with you. No objection there! You are smack on the money? You have never been so right in your life. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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