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[Paphitis]

And on the topic of MH17.

Below is the agreement between the Ukraine Government and Holland to transfer ownership of the wreckage of MH17 to the Dutch Safety Board as as to conduct an investigation into the crash since Ukraine did not have affective control of the areas where MH17 were shot down.

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/fm/MH ... ls_web.pdf

Below is also a letter from the DSB addressed to the Russian Controlled Donetsk Reguon Administration about the DSBs authority to remove the wreckage from the crash site in order to conduct an investigation.
This was a highly unusual move as normally investigators do not like to disturb the crash site so as to avoid contaminating the evidence but the DSB and its partners felt they had no choice because there safety was compromised by the Russian Rebels.

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/uploads/fm/MH ... 17_web.pdf

Again, only official sources here and no idiotic nonsense from idiots! They are so bereft of knowledge and common sense that all they can do is mock a reasonable cut and paste error.

A 'cut and paste error' I could understand, but you then make statements which are not in the document you link to. That isn't an error ..... that's stupidity!

BTW: I just followed your links and they are still the same!!! You have just changed the source ....... sharpest knife in the drawer you are not!

Oh boy you are so stupid! Check again you idiot. You are obviously pretty fucked in the head.

The links are as they should be with the second link being the letter to the Russian Region Administrator for Donetsk. It’s even translated in Russian to avoid any miscommunication with the Russians.

The source is the DSB for both links idiot.

So go fuck yourself idiot or die already! You are way past the average life expectancy and I don’t want you to burden the Cypriot Tax payer with all your health issues anymore! It would be a total waste of money!

[Kikapu]

I believe they will find most pieces of MH370 now, but I do not believe that will be the original crash site, but rather pieces taken from one place and dumped to another without any pieces that may have any traces of a missile hitting it. Yes I know all being a conspiracy theory talk to some, but if you are going to hide the truth for whatever reason, this will be one of the ways to do it.

this scenario assumes they won't find the recorders either, right?

Correct you are, Pyro, at least not the original recordings even if the original recorders are found. They would be doctored, for sure. After such a long time has passed since the disappearance of MH370, anything can be done to hide the true facts. Unfortunately, most people will believe what they will be told and the chapter on MH370 will be closed.

They can’t be doctored. The units are fully secured and can’t be tampered with.

And what on earth would be the motivation or motive? I have asked this so many times. Why would they come up with such an elaborate cover up when they don’t have to? What have they to gain?

They would lie to cover the original lies. This is what happens, when a lie is told to cover up something, the lie must continue until maybe 50 years later when those who did the cover-up are all dead and then comes out the truth of sorts. You can accept that, can't you Paphitis? It doesn't matter that you feel they did not needed to lie if anyone shot down MH370 if it entered into restricted areas, and I agree with you, but at the same time, nobody want's to deal with shooting down a jetliner with 230 lives on board after the fact, and once the search was sent on a wild goose chase, the lie needs to continue. You can see that with the shooting down of MH17. No one has taken responsibility for it, have they? No, because it has a huge political and financial repercussions that would go with accepting responsibility of shooting down a passenger jetliner, any passenger jetliner.

[Paphitis]

I believe they will find most pieces of MH370 now, but I do not believe that will be the original crash site, but rather pieces taken from one place and dumped to another without any pieces that may have any traces of a missile hitting it. Yes I know all being a conspiracy theory talk to some, but if you are going to hide the truth for whatever reason, this will be one of the ways to do it.

this scenario assumes they won't find the recorders either, right?

Correct you are, Pyro, at least not the original recordings even if the original recorders are found. They would be doctored, for sure. After such a long time has passed since the disappearance of MH370, anything can be done to hide the true facts. Unfortunately, most people will believe what they will be told and the chapter on MH370 will be closed.

They can’t be doctored. The units are fully secured and can’t be tampered with.

And what on earth would be the motivation or motive? I have asked this so many times. Why would they come up with such an elaborate cover up when they don’t have to? What have they to gain?

They would lie to cover the original lies. This is what happens, when a lie is told to cover up something, the lie must continue until maybe 50 years later when those who did the cover-up are all dead and then comes out the truth of sorts. You can accept that, can't you Paphitis? It doesn't matter that you feel they did not needed to lie if anyone shot down MH370 if it entered into restricted areas, and I agree with you, but at the same time, nobody want's to deal with shooting down a jetliner with 230 lives on board after the fact, and once the search was sent on a wild goose chase, the lie needs to continue. You can see that with the shooting down of MH17. No one has taken responsibility for it, have they? No, because it has a huge political and financial repercussions that would go with accepting responsibility of shooting down a passenger jetliner, any passenger jetliner.

There are no lies kikapu. These people are public servants. You couldn't find a bigger bunch of square geeks if you tried. They eat and breath Aviation. They are what you call Aerosexuals. Most of them are actually nice people and have their hearts in the right place as well.

As for the US Military or the Australian Department of Defence - both wouldn't lie about shooting down an airliner. It's literally impossible hiding it anyway as they would only take that action at the very last minute so as to give the aircraft the maximum number of opportunities to save themselves. It's not like they would start pushing buttons immediately upon detection even if it was heading for a military installation. It is absurd to suggest that anyone would take such an action lightly. What would have happened, is they would have sent an aircraft to intercept it first and go through the interception and identification procedures. They would try to establish communication with the aircraft, even if it had already violated restricted military airspace.

If they had to destroy an Airliner like this, they would be preparing an official announcement before the aircraft was shot down to tell the world that they had to shoot down an aircraft and they would leave it at that. Then they would start releasing all the information they have and why they did it. They would not answer any questions from the media or hold any press conferences but they would cooperate with the ATSB. They will however never be dictated to by the ATSB and they would make that clear. They consider themselves beyond all approach by anyone other than the Government. If they don't want to answer some questions because it is difficult for them, then they won't.

I can accept the possibility that one day, someone will be forced to down an airliner. It could be USA, UK, Australia or any other country. It was nearly Greece with Helios a few years ago. Some say that Greece shot it down but that was not found to be the case by the investigation. And yes I believe the investigation.

But in a situation like this where an airliner had deviated thousands of kilometers from its flight path and probably was non-responsive to any comms, then its not difficult to understand that such an aircraft faces the risk of being shot from the skies especially if it flies over a major city or a base like Harold E Holt. It would be presumed to be a rogue aircraft or hijacked. It's not something they need to lie about. In fact every pilot has a copy of the Interception Procedures within the "Air Traffic Control" Section of their Jeppesen Airways Manual. I have a copy. I am willing to scan and post it if you want as well. An official dated document that is continuously amended and must be in our Flight Bags. It tells you very specifically what happens when you are intercepted by a Military Aircraft. What will be said, and how the military aircraft will behave in order to instruct the intercepted on what to do. If they leave, then you got problems. That will happen if you do not cooperate.

In all likelihood, Diego Garcia would not warrant a shoot down, because the Americans rarely have planes there, and they would be lucky to have 200 personnel on the island. Yes, they just do not shoot down such aircraft all the time. It depends on the situation of course and the risks. And as a terrorist target, it would be way down the list compared to so many other targets such as Singapore or Darwin.

[Pyrpolizer]

The Flight Plan was never cancelled. The only person who can cancel a Flight Plan is the Captain and they would not have cancelled even if he asked. They would have challenged and questioned him over his intentions because that is what they do. Cancelling the FMC does not equate to cancelling the Flight Plan with ATC.

But since you acknowledge that whatever was responsible had ill intentions, why would the Americans or Australians hide all the evidence if they had to shoot it down? Do you honestly believe that they are that worried when the law is on their side? What is the motive for doing this and then spend millions in a futile search? Why would they fuck themsekves up like that?

For a start will you ever stop talking with initials as if everybody is supposed to know what you mean?
Are you trying to look sophisticated, what?

[Kikapu]

The Flight Plan was never cancelled. The only person who can cancel a Flight Plan is the Captain and they would not have cancelled even if he asked. They would have challenged and questioned him over his intentions because that is what they do. Cancelling the FMC does not equate to cancelling the Flight Plan with ATC.

But since you acknowledge that whatever was responsible had ill intentions, why would the Americans or Australians hide all the evidence if they had to shoot it down? Do you honestly believe that they are that worried when the law is on their side? What is the motive for doing this and then spend millions in a futile search? Why would they fuck themsekves up like that?

For a start will you ever stop talking with initials as if everybody is supposed to know what you mean?
Are you trying to look sophisticated, what?

Paphitis, I was not talking about the pilot cancelling the flight plan Beijing. I was talking about someone "cancelling" (by shooting down the plane) the flight plan of some terrorist act by the pilot in control.

[Paphitis]

The Flight Plan was never cancelled. The only person who can cancel a Flight Plan is the Captain and they would not have cancelled even if he asked. They would have challenged and questioned him over his intentions because that is what they do. Cancelling the FMC does not equate to cancelling the Flight Plan with ATC.

But since you acknowledge that whatever was responsible had ill intentions, why would the Americans or Australians hide all the evidence if they had to shoot it down? Do you honestly believe that they are that worried when the law is on their side? What is the motive for doing this and then spend millions in a futile search? Why would they fuck themsekves up like that?

For a start will you ever stop talking with initials as if everybody is supposed to know what you mean?
Are you trying to look sophisticated, what?

Its a Flight Management Computer.

People can search these acronyms for themselves. If I have to explain every single aviation acronym them it adds a lot of text and I couldn't be stuffed really. I presume that people in this thread know what an FMC is. It's where the Flight Plan is entered. It then enables the Auto Pilot. and all its functions including Auto Throttle and Speed Control, Altitude Holds, and Instrument Procedures. Ir also manages your Fuel for best efficiency, can even select optimum levels and power settings and it takes into consideration the prevailing winds and works out all the V Speeds for you. It also has does your Vertical Nav and letdown procedures. If I was able to use acronyms, then this paragraph is half as long and people like Kikapu know what I am talking about and the rest can work it out.

[Paphitis]

The Flight Plan was never cancelled. The only person who can cancel a Flight Plan is the Captain and they would not have cancelled even if he asked. They would have challenged and questioned him over his intentions because that is what they do. Cancelling the FMC does not equate to cancelling the Flight Plan with ATC.

But since you acknowledge that whatever was responsible had ill intentions, why would the Americans or Australians hide all the evidence if they had to shoot it down? Do you honestly believe that they are that worried when the law is on their side? What is the motive for doing this and then spend millions in a futile search? Why would they fuck themsekves up like that?

For a start will you ever stop talking with initials as if everybody is supposed to know what you mean?
Are you trying to look sophisticated, what?

Paphitis, I was not talking about the pilot cancelling the flight plan Beijing. I was talking about someone "cancelling" (by shooting down the plane) the flight plan of some terrorist act by the pilot in control.

That doesn't make sense. Shooting down does not cancel the Flight Plan. Flight Plans are held by the Air Traffic Controllers in the relevant Flight Information Regions. In MH370s case, it would be held in multiple jurisdictions including China which were expecting its arrival in its airspace but obviously didn't make it.

And again, if it was shot down, there would be no hiding the fact afterwards, especially if it was downed by the Americans or Australians. No reason for this to occur at all. Plus, they wouldn't shoot it down if it was flying in a benign area even if it had violated sovereign airspace. We are not into just shooting planes down to make a point over our sovereignty. It would only occur if there were a huge reason for it. Just because it enters our airspace isn't enough reason for it to be destroyed. We are not Russia or North Korea and act in haste the minute a plane penetrates their airspace. We would let it fly around for hours if the aircraft was no threat to us, to the point of fuel starvation.

If it was a Russian Military or Chinese military aircraft, then it might be a different story.

[Pyrpolizer]

Ocean Infinity are not part of the ATSB search.

Thanks for enlightening us.
Is if we didn’t know it already…

It’s a company from Holland who are being paid $50 million which will commence the search under the auspices of the head investigators (ATSB) and ICAO.

You don’t read anything, do you? Not even your own links.
"Being paid" ???
That was history from Sept 2014. Read your own link for once in your lifetime.

The American bid is just a political move by Malaysian Airlines and the Malaysian Government.

It could be. What’s your evidence?
If no evidence then it’s just your opinion.

The US Government and the Australian Government do not share intelligence with these private firms. They share information with each other.

The most likely to have information is Australia through JORN. The only other information is from Inmarsat which are already a partner of the ATSB and they are a private firm. They are not part of the Echelon Inteligence Network.

And JORN plots will never be provided even if they do exist. JORN is the biggest radar network in the world and no one knows its range.

Even at the stated ranges of 3000 kms, MH370 would have been tracked.

And if MH370 entered into the restricted airspace of JORN, they would suffer some consequences.
https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/ ... G4oMWiAMtQ

Other than one more of your repetitive advertisements of the various intelligence systems you would be proud of holding their flag in a parade, I don’t see anything of essence here. JORN obviously hasn’t tracked anything…
Be reminded that according to RH’s argument the whatever intelligence is made of people, and people could leak information for money.

[Paphitis]

Ocean Infinity are not part of the ATSB search.

Thanks for enlightening us.
Is if we didn’t know it already…

It’s a company from Holland who are being paid $50 million which will commence the search under the auspices of the head investigators (ATSB) and ICAO.

You don’t read anything, do you? Not even your own links.
"Being paid" ???
That was history from Sept 2014. Read your own link for once in your lifetime.

The American bid is just a political move by Malaysian Airlines and the Malaysian Government.

It could be. What’s your evidence?
If no evidence then it’s just your opinion.

The US Government and the Australian Government do not share intelligence with these private firms. They share information with each other.

The most likely to have information is Australia through JORN. The only other information is from Inmarsat which are already a partner of the ATSB and they are a private firm. They are not part of the Echelon Inteligence Network.

And JORN plots will never be provided even if they do exist. JORN is the biggest radar network in the world and no one knows its range.

Even at the stated ranges of 3000 kms, MH370 would have been tracked.

And if MH370 entered into the restricted airspace of JORN, they would suffer some consequences.
https://www.airforce.gov.au/Technology/ ... G4oMWiAMtQ

Other than one more of your repetitive advertisements of the various intelligence systems you would be proud of holding their flag in a parade, I don’t see anything of essence here. JORN obviously hasn’t tracked anything…
Be reminded that according to RH’s argument the whatever intelligence is made of people, and people could leak information for money.

I read my links. The September 14 Report was the Preliminary Report. This is where I get all my information from. I use official sources. Here is the website:

https://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/ ... -july-2014

Just because the BBC or some other blogger writes something in 2018, it does not over ride the official investigations and the official reports from the DSB.

I do not have any evidence that the American and Malaysian bid is for political purposes. It's just my opinion because they have gone outside the official auspices. The ATSB also had a major disagreement as to the possible crash site. the Malaysians believe it is more South whereas the ATSB want to go North. But the other hypothesis is that Malaysia has done it so that they are not forced to pitch in with some of the cost, but at the same time they can't be seen to be doing nothing because the Government would find itself under pressure and so would Malaysian Airlines. So they found an American Company with a 90 day no find no fee contract.

And you are the one that mentioned Ocean Infinity.

I am not against the American or Malaysian bid. On the contrary, I hope they find it but if they do, the crash site has to be handed over to the ATSB by ICAO Law.

The Australian ATSB search activities seem to be looking at the Inmarsat Plots as well as Uni of WA research into ocean currents. It will be very hard to find MH370. But the best thing of all is the new technology they will be using which lets them cover as much floor in 90 days which would have taken 2 years previously.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyro, I really believe that the fix is on and that they will discovered the wreckage of MH370, just not all of it. The aviation industry wants to resolve this mystery so that people can feel safe when they fly in the case of an accident that they could be found and rescued. No one can accept a jetliner with over 200 people can evade all tracking systems in the world and in space and just disappear into thin air. They must produce MH370 no matter what. They will just not produce the truth.

These are excellent articles, worth reading.
I don't think they will find anything but if they will, then presumably it's going to be in one piece because as they say the evidence on debris suggests the pilot was alive to the last minute and deliberately ditched the plane.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/in ... a92a5aaf20

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... 11189b6111

quotes:

In October, 2017, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) published its final 440-page report into the search, which spanned 1046 days from the time the Malaysia Airlines plane disappeared on March 8, 2014, '.....

“We ... deeply regret that we have not been able to locate the aircraft, nor those 239 souls on board that remain missing,” the report said.

Ha,ha,ha and Paphitis was telling us the Australian bureaucrats would pay 50M to Fugro to continue....

A top air crash investigator, John Cox, previously said that the Australian Transport Safety Bureau’s “ghost flight” and “death dive” theories are wrong. He says evidence from recovered wing flaps suggests the pilot was flying the aircraft until the end and ditched it.

That’s not true. They do not know whether anyone was alive or not. There are 2 hypothesis for a reason.

One is a controlled ditching into the ocean and the other is a violent spiral dive into the ocean due to a stall. The second hypothesis involves a cabin depressurisation scenario where no one on board was alive. That is the favoured scenario at the moment.

You didn't even read the links did you?
Well according to the links Ocean infinity's favored scenario the pilot was alive to the last minute and actually ditched the plane.
And since the expected new investigation is going to be carried by Ocean infinity, we have to accept that the favorable scenario at the moments is what they are saying it is.