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Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby kurupetos » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:01 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:what would you call a bbf and why would it not be division?


A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.


I see no mention of division in this DEFINITION of federation. I do see the word UNION (as in unity) in this DEFINITION of federation. Yet to you federation means 'division'. You do not wonder why it means this to you but only wonder why the rest of the world does not see it your way or define it your way.

Don't be silly erol... bizonal along with bicommunal means partition. Only a unitary state should be accepted. :wink:
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby Lordo » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:05 pm

kurupetos wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:what would you call a bbf and why would it not be division?


A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.


I see no mention of division in this DEFINITION of federation. I do see the word UNION (as in unity) in this DEFINITION of federation. Yet to you federation means 'division'. You do not wonder why it means this to you but only wonder why the rest of the world does not see it your way or define it your way.

Don't be silly erol... bi-zonal along with bi-communal means partition. Only a unitary state should be accepted. :wink:

you are just too thick. who wants to federate with your the likes of you anyway. go to hell boy.
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby kurupetos » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:13 pm

Lordo wrote:
kurupetos wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:what would you call a bbf and why would it not be division?


A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.


I see no mention of division in this DEFINITION of federation. I do see the word UNION (as in unity) in this DEFINITION of federation. Yet to you federation means 'division'. You do not wonder why it means this to you but only wonder why the rest of the world does not see it your way or define it your way.

Don't be silly erol... bi-zonal along with bi-communal means partition. Only a unitary state should be accepted. :wink:

you are just too thick. who wants to federate with your the likes of you anyway. go to hell boy.

No need to be hostile, kuz. A unitary state will keep us closer. :wink:

It also ensures Cyprus will never be partitioned. Obviously the deep Turkish state is against it, but it's a mystery why you and erol don't want it. :?

Care to explain? :mrgreen:
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:37 pm

kurupetos wrote:It also ensures Cyprus will never be partitioned. Obviously the deep Turkish state is against it, but it's a mystery why you and erol don't want it. :?

Care to explain? :mrgreen:


I actually do want a unitary Cypriot state. I just understand and respect that the only way to get there is for TC and GC to choose to place being 'Cypriot' and united as such despite our other differences, ahead of and above choosing to be 'Greek' or Turkish'. I understand the reality that given our abject failures in the past to do this and what that has resulted in, that there is no way to go from where we are today directly to the ideal of a unitary Cypriot state where it truly does not manner if you are a GC or TC. That we can only get there via an intermediary stage of 'federation' and that it may take generations from there to reach the ultimate end goal.

Do you choose to place being Cypriot ahead of being Greek Kurupetos ? Would you today defend me as a Cypriot against Greeks who may wish to harm me, given your communities failure to do so in the past ?
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby Oceanside50 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:04 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote:what would you call a bbf and why would it not be division?


A federation (from Latin: foedus, gen.: foederis, "covenant"), also known as a federal state, is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government.


I see no mention of division in this DEFINITION of federation. I do see the word UNION (as in unity) in this DEFINITION of federation. Yet to you federation means 'division'. You do not wonder why it means this to you but only wonder why the rest of the world does not see it your way or define it your way.


a federation could mean what there is there today or what you see in the USA ...
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:18 pm

Oceanside50 wrote: a federation could mean what there is there today or what you see in the USA ...


Sorry but to me the idea that a solution based on BBF could be exactly the same as what we have today is to me absurd.
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby Oceanside50 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:43 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Oceanside50 wrote: a federation could mean what there is there today or what you see in the USA ...


Sorry but to me the idea that a solution based on BBF could be exactly the same as what we have today is to me absurd.


its not absurd if you take the criteria for a BBF Federation that was outlined in the Annan Plan...

what do we have today?

The pseudo state and the RoC...both function independently of each other except for some points i.e....Passports issuance and international recognitions,,

The EU has already said that the RoC has dejure jurisdiction over the whole island...
The RoC is both the Federal government and the Greek Cypriot constituent state...it has its own legal system traffic courts, criminal courts and Supreme Court.. The pseudo state has the same thing, including its own constitution and its own Supreme Court...

Here you will find the function of the Supreme Court...it applies to Federal and State
cyprus43939-20.html

Passports are issued by the central Federal government for both TC and GC....The Federal government/RoC makes treaties, controls the offshore resources and has and controls international ports for trade....

In the Annan plan provisions were made to the Tc constituent state, to have the authority to block freedom of movement and GC investment into the Tc state...They also had a provision where the Tc states Supreme Court would be the last resort of appeal to Greek Cypriots, not the Federal Supreme Court or European Courts of Human Rights...This means that the Tc state could enact laws against the Gc living in the Tc state and the Gc could not do anything about it, because as you have seen above in the definition of a Supreme Court, it enacts laws according to what the majority would want, especially social laws....For instance, a law could be passed in the Tc state, that taxed Gc properties at 30% of value per year, forcing the Gc to leave or sell to pay off their tax bills to the Tc state government....yes in a federal solution such as Annan, the consequences would be as we have today.....No Gc living in the Tc state, no freedom of movement/investment and the Central/Federal government being controlled by the GC majority..like we have today...
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:53 pm

I am sorry but I really do not have the energy to get into your mistakes, distortions and misrepresentations about the Annan plan actually said.

Just at the simplest level ANY form BBF would make massive difference to my life in Cyprus as a Cypriot compared to what it is like today. I could list countless differences but what would be the point ? You want to believe that a BBF solution may end up[ being no different from what we have today and that is what you will believe.
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby Oceanside50 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:00 pm

erolz66 wrote:I am sorry but I really do not have the energy to get into your mistakes, distortions and misrepresentations about the Annan plan actually said.

Just at the simplest level ANY form BBF would make massive difference to my life in Cyprus as a Cypriot compared to what it is like today. I could list countless differences but what would be the point ? You want to believe that a BBF solution may end up[ being no different from what we have today and that is what you will believe.


why would it be any different since the Tc leaders are the ones requesting the regulations in the Federation.....to keep things as they are but make it legal....and through the Annan plan for a BBF it would have been...

What differences were you expecting? Ask yourself this...Who are theTc electing today into their government? Wont they be the same after the solution and won't they adhere to the same ideals as before? the representatives of the Tc will make the same laws with the same expectations....as today...that is a Federation... even koLordo gets it
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Re: Arrested For Flying Flags of the Republic

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:14 pm

Oceanside50 wrote: What differences were you expecting?


Simple, everyday things. Will I be able to drive and visit any part of Cyprus without having to register and insure my car twice and without having to queue up at checkpoints ? Can I today ? Will I get paid in and use the same currency where ever I am in Cyprus ? Is that true today ? Will I be able to get furniture I buy at Ikea delivered direct to my home ? Will my mobile phone work at the same cost throughout Cyprus ? Simple things but ones that would make a significant material difference to living in Cyprus for me.
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