Cyprus-Forum.com

[boulio]

What everything should be based on is the rule of law not some jokers idea of a solution. The majority of the Annan plan was a joke. Where in the western world and in the heart of Europe does anyone see restrictions and derogations other then the joke Annan plan that wasn't even worth the paper it was printed on. Seeing the mention of the Annan plan as a solution is an insult to the intelligence of every western progressive citizen in this world. Try going back a few centuries and maybe you'll find someone that would take that plan seriously.

One might be given to think, based on the above description, that GC had no part at all in the creation of the Annan plan. That is was not drafted under the auspices of an body like the UN but by some 'bloody jokers' with no regard or understanding of the rule of law.

Did the gc have any real input erol?or did Haney and de soto really have the input,even annan who put his name to the plan most likely had no idea what the plan contained.

[erolz66]

What everything should be based on is the rule of law not some jokers idea of a solution. The majority of the Annan plan was a joke. Where in the western world and in the heart of Europe does anyone see restrictions and derogations other then the joke Annan plan that wasn't even worth the paper it was printed on. Seeing the mention of the Annan plan as a solution is an insult to the intelligence of every western progressive citizen in this world. Try going back a few centuries and maybe you'll find someone that would take that plan seriously.

One might be given to think, based on the above description, that GC had no part at all in the creation of the Annan plan. That is was not drafted under the auspices of an body like the UN but by some 'bloody jokers' with no regard or understanding of the rule of law.

Did the gc have any real input erol?or did Haney and de soto really have the input,even annan who put his name to the plan most likely had no idea what the plan contained.

Sigh

I am reluctant to get into another long pointless debate to be honest. I know that GC rejected the Annan plan and I accept totally it was their right to do so. However this 'idea' that it was clearly the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' does beg the (imo vaild) question that if this is so clearly the case then why did the UN, the EU, Greece , USA and pretty much everyone other than the 70% odd of GC that rejected it, including I might add your current RoC president support its adoption ? Were all of these parties unable to see it was the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' ?

[Oceanside50]

What everything should be based on is the rule of law not some jokers idea of a solution. The majority of the Annan plan was a joke. Where in the western world and in the heart of Europe does anyone see restrictions and derogations other then the joke Annan plan that wasn't even worth the paper it was printed on. Seeing the mention of the Annan plan as a solution is an insult to the intelligence of every western progressive citizen in this world. Try going back a few centuries and maybe you'll find someone that would take that plan seriously.

One might be given to think, based on the above description, that GC had no part at all in the creation of the Annan plan. That is was not drafted under the auspices of an body like the UN but by some 'bloody jokers' with no regard or understanding of the rule of law.

Did the gc have any real input erol?or did Haney and de soto really have the input,even annan who put his name to the plan most likely had no idea what the plan contained.

Sigh

I am reluctant to get into another long pointless debate to be honest. I know that GC rejected the Annan plan and I accept totally it was their right to do so. However this 'idea' that it was clearly the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' does beg the (imo vaild) question that if this is so clearly the case then why did the UN, the EU, Greece , USA and pretty much everyone other than the 70% odd of GC that rejected it, including I might add your current RoC president support its adoption ? Were all of these parties unable to see it was the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' ?

Are you kidding?...the plan gave the Gc no rights...it gave them no right of appeal in all cases involving Gc.. It gave them no rights to their properties for any use whatsoever..there are many more derogations but just from these two alone, an apartheid regime would have been created singling out the Gc as Sputh Africa singled out the blacks...as for the above mentioned ...they fell for the hype rather then the substance.. Surmise on your own, would the suspension of habius corpus against Gc be appropriate in today's Europe and the free western world. If the Tc and turkey are serious about a solution then it's easy if it follows civil and human rights, I guarantee that the Gc would vote for it.

[erolz66]

Are you kidding?...the plan gave the Gc no rights...it gave them no right of appeal in all cases involving Gc.. It gave them no rights to their properties for any use whatsoever..there are many more derogations but just from these two alone, an apartheid regime would have been created singling out the Gc as Sputh Africa singled out the blacks...as for the above mentioned ...they fell for the hype rather then the substance.. Surmise on your own, would the suspension of habius corpus against Gc be appropriate in today's Europe and the free western world.

Yet the UN supported a yes vote. The EU supported a yes vote. Greece supported a yes vote. USA supported a yes vote. Your current president supported a yes vote. Does this not seem even a little bit incongruous to you ?

[Sotos]

Some supported it as a COMPROMISE solution since you refuse to obey UN resolutions about the illegally of the occupation and your pseudo state. What you are doing is CRIMINAL. Rejecting that plan was a perfectly legitimate choice.

[repulsewarrior]

...indeed, no one but the Cypriots had to vote for it erolz. I say thank goodness for democracy, because the People did not vote for something so unclear, and over the passing of time, although, if, everything went according to the bureaucrats' assumptions we may have been better off, it is clear that had they not, the situation would be worse.

...for the record:

leaked to the press
Turkish Cypriot daily Halkin Sesi newspaper (10.07.14) reports that the media of Turkey obtained the five-point road map submitted by the Turkish Cypriot side in the Cyprus negotiations. The paper writes that according to Turkish NTV, the Turkish road map is the following:
"1) The second stage of substantial negotiations, during which the positions are mutually determined, will be completed before the negotiations' entering into the summer vacations.

2) The last stage which is the give and take will start in the end of August. In this process, the map, the security and the guarantees will be left for a next stage.

3) The leaders will visit the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in New York in September during the works of the General Assembly. In this summit, the disagreements will once more be put onto the table in front of the Secretary-General. The leaders will plan the last steps together with the Secretary-General.

4) A four-party conference will be organized with the participation of guarantor powers Turkey and Greece in parallel to the sides in Cyprus. During the conference which will constitute the most important stage of the negotiations, the territory, the map, the security and the guarantees will be decided. While on the one hand the guarantors are discussing in the conference, on the other the Cypriot leaders' negotiations will continue. In the summit, if the leaders achieve reconciliation of differences, the date of the referendum by which the solution will separately but simultaneously be submitted for the approval of the two peoples, will be finalized. In the period that will pass until the date of the referendum, delegations of experts will enter into the close city of Varosha and the works of opening the city again for settlement will officially be launched.

5) In the fifth and last stage, a referendum will be held in Cyprus after ten years. If the result that will come out from the referendum from both sides is 'yes' to the solution reached by the leaders and the guarantors, the establishment of a new state will be declared. However, if the answer that will come out from the referendum is 'no', it will be declared to the world that this process has also failed and that solution could not be found in Cyprus any more. In case the process fails, a broad conference will be organized in which all sides concerned with the Cyprus problem will be gathered. Here they will discuss what should be done for the solution of the problem".

maybe it is the poor translation, but this does not make much sense to me, can anyone help?

[erolz66]

Sometimes posting here feels like I have 'stepped through the looking glass' into some surreal world where all normality no longer exists.

Did I say here that the Annan plan was a good one ? Did I say that the GC community had no right to reject it ? Did I say anyone other than the two communities had a right to vote on it ?

Or did I suggest that there was an incongruity between the assertion that it was clearly 'written by jokers and not based on the rule of law' and the fact that everyone who did not have vote, including highly partisan entities like Geece, supported it and a significant number of GC, including the current president of the RoC supported it.

Is my suggestion really so extreme that it warrants such 'refuting' that is has since received, some of which evens refutes things that I not only did not say but actually explicitly did say (my "I accept totally it was [GC] right to [reject the annan plan]" vs Sotos' refuting with "Rejecting that plan was a perfectly legitimate choice")

Surreal.

[Oceanside50]

[quote][/quote]Or did I suggest that there was an incongruity between the assertion that it was clearly 'written by jokers and not based on the rule of law' and the fact that everyone who did not have vote, including highly partisan entities like Geece, supported it and a significant number of GC, including the current president of the RoC supported it."""...

if a document takes away an ethnic groups rights such as taking their right of appeal ,away, then how can it be based on the rule of law. Couldn't it be based on compromise instead, which had no prerequisite for the rule of law. If the negotiations had a prerequisite to abide by the rule of law, wouldn't the Turk army and settlers have to withdraw and all refugees return before negotiations resumed?? ..as for Greece some former prime ministers supported a solution as did Clerides. Although Clerides publicly stated that after the ratification of Annan people could go to the ECHR and try to remove the. Derogations , which were racist and violated people's rights.

[repulsewarrior]

...sorry erolz, I get your point, and your frank and open expression is refreshing; you are right, I had forgotten already what you said when I wrote my comment, not necessarily to you but to someone i'll call "you", it seems so popular to take a particular individual and stick them with all this stuff from another "side".

...point is, (sticking to the actual topic) here are the points, the roadmap that leads to success, and on which these negotiators threaten to walk away without its acceptance; tiresome stuff we are suffering, those of us not in the banquet room, seriously what is this stuff?

...regarding the Annan Plan, at some point it too must have become a slurper's paradise, at one point someone was changing it, knowing that at the referendum it would remain unread. it is sad to think the rest of the world would have gone along with anything the Cypriot people would agree to, something so undemocratic...

[boulio]

What everything should be based on is the rule of law not some jokers idea of a solution. The majority of the Annan plan was a joke. Where in the western world and in the heart of Europe does anyone see restrictions and derogations other then the joke Annan plan that wasn't even worth the paper it was printed on. Seeing the mention of the Annan plan as a solution is an insult to the intelligence of every western progressive citizen in this world. Try going back a few centuries and maybe you'll find someone that would take that plan seriously.

One might be given to think, based on the above description, that GC had no part at all in the creation of the Annan plan. That is was not drafted under the auspices of an body like the UN but by some 'bloody jokers' with no regard or understanding of the rule of law.

Did the gc have any real input erol?or did Haney and de soto really have the input,even annan who put his name to the plan most likely had no idea what the plan contained.

Sigh

I am reluctant to get into another long pointless debate to be honest. I know that GC rejected the Annan plan and I accept totally it was their right to do so. However this 'idea' that it was clearly the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' does beg the (imo vaild) question that if this is so clearly the case then why did the UN, the EU, Greece , USA and pretty much everyone other than the 70% odd of GC that rejected it, including I might add your current RoC president support its adoption ? Were all of these parties unable to see it was the work of 'jokers and not based on the rule of law' ?

Here is a link from a older discussion why it was rejected Hermes post has many good points,so honestly I really don't give a damn if some UN,EU bureaucrat greek or us for that matter accepted.it was not based on any rule of law but Turkish interest.so yes the 70% odd gc that voted no only count and will only count so if the next plan if Allah comes down and endorse it it won't matter a rats ass!all that will will be what the gc think.