Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

What's ANE?

ANE was the youth movement of EOKA, in Greek Alkimos Neolea EOKA.

Its role was that of a courier service, delivering parcels to and from, youngsters took the OATH, as I did at the age of 12, although in my case there was a probationary period before taking the OATH which involved carrying out some deliveries and being judged of how disciplined you were.

Will tell you all about my " probationary " period " in due course. I must admit that I made a couple of blunders but there again I was a mere child.

[The subaltern]

Attention! Ashtung! Tikkat! Προσοχή!

Before commenting on the subject raised by Miltiades I would like to issue a health warning to those with digestive problems. A TC who after reading one line of my previous post on a similar subject started looking for the sic bag and a GS (?) of similar disposition who “spewed a bucket” and spoiled his breakfast after reading same.
Your condition chaps is due to your bad diet and I suggest, you both stick to something simpler like “What are you eating/cooking tonight” subject, proposed by yialousa 1971 or perhaps “what are you drinking to night” proposed by same. It suits your temperament and mind set.

To the subject and I will try to be as brief as I can.

The subject proposed by Miltiades is “Childhood memories of the struggle”. The struggle of course was to get rid of the British rule. It is a very interesting subject that goes far beyond reminiscing and in order to be understood it ought to be but in its proper historical context.

Mr. Miltiades willingness to answer questions on the subject prompted Mr Lordo to ask in my opinion a reasonable enough question: why “it did not occur to any of you (the GC) that perhaps the TCs will not be so hot on the idea of enosis” etc. An assumption is implied here, that the enosis objective just appeared out of the blue in 1955! Not so am afraid Mr Lordo and Co. Enosis was a long standing objective since 1821 during the Greek war of independence.

Mr Lordo either did not know or pretends not to know the facts. The Turks in fact, been the occupiers of Cyprus at the time, saw to it that no enosis was to raise its head in Cyprus. On the 9th of July 1821 hanged all the GC notables, 500 of them, and Turkish, Arab and Albanian soldiers stationed in Cyprus, embarked on an orgy of terror drowning in blood the enosis ideal.

The leasing of Cyprus to Britain by the Turks, re ignited the enosis ideal. The GC seen Britain as a Christian country believed that in due course Cyprus would be transferred to Greece as they have done with the Ionian Islands not so long ago. No such luck though. The Cypriots have not been deterred by the British refusal. They continue fighting for Enosis through plebiscites and representations to the British government but with out any positive results, until the First World War when Britain needed assistance; and hear this: Britain offered Cyprus to Greece if Greece were to join the war. Greece been slow to respond, the offer was withdrawn.

Enosis has not though been forgotten. In 1931 the GC revolted against the British, burning down the government house. The last attempt for enosis was in 1955 where Miltiades begins his reminiscence and Mr. Lordo asked his question.

As it can be seen enosis was not a new thing. It was an ongoing objective.
Where were though the TCs during all these events?
They were, before 1879 British arrival to Cyprus, the persecutors and murderers of the GCs.

With the arrival of the British not much changed. The TCs were the police force of the British Empire continuing their role as the oppressors of the GC. Pictures of the time shows the police (TCs) with their traditional Ottoman uniforms, fez and all,
maintaining “law and order” on behalf of the British.
While the GCs were asking for their freedom the TCs were happy collaborating with the British.

The Ataturk revolution in Turkey saw the TCs leaving Cyprus in droves encouraged by Ataturk to relocate. The tide was partially stemmed by the Brits fearing that the loss of the TC would make their stay in Cyprus unattainable in the future. The TCs were their Trojan horse.

That’s how much Cypriot the TCs felt. Leaving Cyprus for Turkey was their natural reaction after loosing control and sense of superiority over the GC, especially after the annexation of Cyprus by the British.
This feeling of not belonging has its roots in their position as the conquering power. Once they lost Cyprus the feeling of not belonging was compounded by the luck of long historical connection with the land and traditions of the place.

This luck of connection and of not belonging can further be demonstrated by the present TC withdrawal to the occupied north with out even considering, if they ever had a sense of belonging, of returning to their “ancestral” land. Quite the opposite is the sense of loss with the GCs. Of course the presence of GC culture in the occupied north reminds them of their sense of not belonging there. To overcome it they have embarked on a wholesale destruction of everything that reminds them that they do not belong.

So Mr. Lordo and Co.
(a) Why should the GC consider the views of their former oppressors when demanding their freedom? Do you think they were to consent?
(b) No minority has ever had the right to determine what the wishes of the majority should be.
(c) The TCs right to live in Cyprus has never been disputed despite the atrocities they have committed against the GC through out the ages.
(d) By siding with the British occupiers of Cyprus they forfeit the right to be consulted. Remember the auxiliary police? The vast majority were TCs.
(e) And most important; have the TCs ever considered themselves as Cypriots? The answer is no. They came as oppressors, they know they were oppressors and sided with the oppressors against the GC. You do not therefore ask your oppressor what he feels towards your fight for freedom or do you?

I think that’s enough. You must have got the gist of my argument I hope.

By the way, perfidious Albion with her long tested divide and rule policy not only here in Cyprus but all over the world is the main culprit of the Cyprus debacle.

[Lordo]

well well well what do you know. you wait for years and nothing and all of a sudden two karpasian asses appear at the same time.

first of all tcs have never been and will never be minority in cyprus.
secondly they are the founding nation with political equality.
thirdly do not taint all the tcs with the action of about 2500 tc police who were merely earning a living. and even the most barbaric gengis han recognised the need of the man to feed his family even if it meant working for the enemy so long as when things normalised they stoped.
thirdly no furker gave you the right to decide if tcs have or had a say
fourthly you are a dumb ass and not only got what you deserved but will continue to be furked up the ass first by the yanks and the israilis and then one last time by the terks.
fifthly not all tcs are of ottoman descend
sixthly they are more cypriot then you or the likes of fascists like you will ever be.
seventhly you will never be allowed to enosis the whole of cyprus with greece
eightly you will not be even able to enosis your part of cyprus with greece because pappa terkey does not like it
ninthly you managed to enosis cyprus with the germans and merkel thanks you for it.
and finally tenthly sling your hook eslewhere sunshine this pond aint got no fish left nohow.

milti my foolish eoga traitor friend sorry but the post had to be answered.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Miltiades tell us about your interations with TCs and when did you realize they have rights?

It was much too late when we realised the TCs had the same rights as us.

You see, we were led to believe TCs had MORE rights than us ....

.....................................................................................


@ Miltiades - excellent thread. Your finest to date.

@Subaltern - great reading, once again.

[erolz66]

Subaltern are you by any chance related to GiG ? A step sister perhaps ?

How simple and black and white your 'Cypriot history' is and how convenient it is to your necessary illusions.

Here is a slightly different version of history.

Under Ottoman rule in Cyprus, just as there had been before it, there were countless revolts and uprising by the un empowered ordinary Cypriots and those that ruled them. Under Ottoman rule such uprising and revolts were between two sides (just as they had been before Ottoman rule), a ruling elite, that sure at the very top of it included The Sultan and his appointed minions in Cyprus but ALSO included Christian CYPRIOTS vs an un empowered ordinary Cypriots 'peasantry' that had both Christian Cypriots in it and Muslim Cypriots. There are countless examples of such uprising in Cyprus under Ottoman rule until 1821 and even some after it. Ordinary Christian and Muslim Cypriots fighting together against a ruling elite that comprised of Christian and Muslim Cypriots and non Cypriot Ottomans. Many many examples of such uprising, though of course THESE uprising do not suit YOUR narrative so you simply forget them.

Then in 1821 things did indeed change, as a result of the irredentist Mengali idea that was at the heart of the Greek struggle for not just independence but Greek pan nationalism, that has led Greece to be the most expansionist nation state in the history of nation states, if you measure how expansionist a nation state is by how much it has expanded since its initial formation. This was indeed the point from which the historic struggles and uprising that had hitherto been between un empowered Cypriots , both muslim and Christian alike, against the ruling elites that also contained muslim and christian Cypriots as well as foreign rulers into one characterised by ethnicity.

So a slightly different version of history for you there.

(a) Why should the GC consider the views of their former oppressors when demanding their freedom? Do you think they were to consent?

Because by the 1950's no one, other than GC fuelled by the irredentist Mengali idea force fed to them since 1821 via Greek education and the Greek orthodox church, considered TC, who had been living in Cyprus for generations to be 'oppressors' and trhe reason why no one else considered them oppressors by that stage was because they were not by that stage. For the rest of the world, not steeped in generations of the irredentist Mengali idea, the TC were by 1950 just what they were - an ethnic group who were not Greek and for whom Cyprus was also their homeland for generations that not only did not enjoy economic or political power disproportionate to their numbers but in fact carried less of each to their numerical numbers. Do not get me wrong I understand WHY GC considered us such rather than just Cypriots like them who happened to not be Greek but that does not mean that such a perspective was right. It certainly was not a perspective shared by anyone not under the influence of the Mengali doctrine.

(b) No minority has ever had the right to determine what the wishes of the majority should be.

Actually that is so totally and palpably untrue. To give you just one example where a tiny miniscule numerical minority has the RIGHT to block the wishes of a massive numerical majority, far far in excess of the proportion of GC to TC in 1960, you only have to look at the RoC's veto rights within the EU.

(c) The TCs right to live in Cyprus has never been disputed despite the atrocities they have committed against the GC through out the ages.

This is totally contradicted by your point a. What you actually mean is you TC have every right (according to you) to live in Cyprus IF they accept they can do so as 'former oppressors' with different and lesser communal rights to those GC have as 'native e Cypriots'.

(d) By siding with the British occupiers of Cyprus they forfeit the right to be consulted. Remember the auxiliary police? The vast majority were TCs.

Talk about confusing cause with effect. What actually forced TC to have to side with the British was in fact the GC irredentist Mengali doctrine, that made GC different from TC. Without that 'contamination' there is little doubt that TC and GC would have struggled together side by side against the British for independence, as ordinary Cypriots of all ethnic backgrounds had done countless times before 1821 and the 'infection' of the Mengali idea into Cyprus.

(e) And most important; have the TCs ever considered themselves as Cypriots? The answer is no. They came as oppressors, they know they were oppressors and sided with the oppressors against the GC. You do not therefore ask your oppressor what he feels towards your fight for freedom or do you?

Well sure if you alone, carrying the taint of the mengali doctrine with you, get to define what we are and who we are then sure you are right. Unfortunately for you, we actually think we have a say in such matters and so does the rest of the world. For the record I have always considered myself Cypriot and have NEVER considered myself Turkish. My Cypriot father did not 'come to Cyprus as an oppressor' nor was he such in Cyprus, nor was his father before him or his before him or his before him.

By the way, perfidious Albion with her long tested divide and rule policy not only here in Cyprus but all over the world is the main culprit of the Cyprus debacle.

Ah the old Cypriot trait, as deeply embedded in TC as GC, to blame anyone but themselves. It warms me how similar we really are. The fact is it was not British 'divide and rule' that drove the wedge between ordinary Cypriots of different religious and cultural back grounds. They merely and inevitably exploited the already much longer existing wedge driven between ordinary Cypriots as a result of generations of indoctrination of the Mengali idea and the lesser and later reactionary mirror ideas amongst TC.

[Get Real!]

The Ataturk revolution in Turkey saw the TCs leaving Cyprus in droves encouraged by Ataturk to relocate. The tide was partially stemmed by the Brits fearing that the loss of the TC would make their stay in Cyprus unattainable in the future. The TCs were their Trojan horse.

Didn’t I warn that you should ALWAYS supply barf bags when posting diarrhea?

Here’s the real reason why some 10,000 TCs abandoned Cyprus for Turkey:

The 1923 Treaty of Lausanne

ARTICLE 2I .

Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the 5th November, 1914, will acquire British nationality subject to the conditions laid down in the local law, and will thereupon lose their Turkish nationality. They will, however, have the right to opt for Turkish nationality within two years from the coming into force of the present Treaty, provided that they leave Cyprus within twelve months after having so opted.
Turkish nationals ordinarily resident in Cyprus on the coming into force of the present Treaty who, at that date, have acquired or are in process of acquiring British nationality in consequence of a request made in accordance with the local law, will also thereupon lose their Turkish nationality.
It is understood that the Government of Cyprus will be entitled to refuse British nationality to inhabitants of the island who, being Turkish nationals, had formerly acquired another nationality without the consent of the Turkish Government.

As can be seen the British actually encouraged them to leave in this way, but you tried to be clever by manufacturing propaganda against them!

I hope you’re not getting your information from Greek “history” books or you’ll be facing more embarrassments…

[repulsewarrior]

...i don't know too much about history, but i know that the house built behind my Grandmother's would have been built 150 years in 1974. our neighbours were Muslim, what divided us was a fence from lemon tree to lemon tree, planted in a row, between the two yards for the chickens.

...but my earliest recollections start in 1960.

[miltiades]

From the start, I made it clear that this thread is by no means a political one, the reason I chose General.

It was my wish and still is to present a series of recollections reflecting the struggle years and the thoughts and feelings of a young boy barely 9 years old at the start of the struggle.

I have also made clear that my views then do not necessarily concur with my current views, one such view then was that ENOSIS was the be all and end all of the struggle and that the presence on the island of the T/C minority did not feature prominently.

I make no claim that my recollections are representative of those of other G/Cs who lived through the era but I do claim that all that I recollect are true and not fabricated in order to score a point either against the British or the T/Cs. I will write as I remember, recollect events as they happened. Some of you may very well object to what I will write soon on the role AKEL played in the struggle.

I was there, I saw and heard, I participated in a tiny way, I provided food, clothing, unknown parcels at given locations following instructions given by my "LEADER ".

[miltiades]

Back in the village everyone supported the struggle, EOKA became the main topic of conversation in cafenia, in schools and almost everywhere there was a gathering of people.

Not so in Ayios Loukas as I soon found out to my complete bewilderment and utter disbelief on watching young men and boys rushing to tear up FILLADIA, EOKA LEAFLETS, no sooner than they touched the ground. AKEL was the predominant party in Ayios Loukas, AKEL opposed the struggle from day one.

A few days after arriving in Ayios Loukas I watched the tearing up and binning of Filladia, I just could not understand why, I asked some boys and they put me in my place, firmly I must admit.

A month or so later I enrolled at the local Domotiko but was troubled from the start at the animosity shown for EOKA. Up to that time I was not interested in football but soon found out that those supporting Salamina were leftists and those supporting Anorthosis were right wingers, Dexii and Aristeri. Managed to quickly comprehend the two divisions so apparent in Ayios Loukas and firmly attached my self to those piers who shared my admiration for the struggle. Supported Anorthosis, watched some of the legents of the time such as the great Zaggilos, Shailos, Kouvis, Aspris, not forgetting the goalkeeper,Papiros .

My admiration for EOKA and the struggle soon caught the attention of a school teacher.

He was involved in PEKA.....

[Lordo]

perhaps you can describe to us the unknown packages. How big and how heavy were they. were they sealed. Did you have no idea what was in them.