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CYPRIOT TURK AND CYPRIOT GREEK YOUTH ! LOOK AT HERE...

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

CYPRIOT TURK AND CYPRIOT GREEK YOUTH ! LOOK AT HERE...

Postby KIBRISLI » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:17 pm

Hello friends ;

I want to talk about something ;

All we see the last term of Cyprus Problem groving and developing and the continuing timeline and All we observed that The EU , Turkey , Greece and USA all tried to make this Annan Plan as Running and They tried to make OUR ISLAND as their ownself wonders and their own rants ...

SO WHAT HAPPENED : THEY MADE THIS ISLAND MORE DIVIDED AND MORE ENEMYING POWER in ourselves ...

They made us ENEMY and they made ourselves as More and More divided ...


NOW I AM CALLING THE YOUTH OF CYPRUS ( TURKISH AND GREEK )

- LETS MAKE OUR OWN PLAN AND MAKE OUR ISLAND AS A " PEACE ISLAND "

- LETS KICK OFF TURKEY , GREECE , EU , USA powers in our island and all We control Our İsland ...

- Lets fight for the Brotherness of the People of Turkish and Greek Cypriot People in our Island ...

THE OTHERPOWERS CAN NEVER MAKE THIS ISLAND AS A PEACE ISLAND ...

THIS ISLAND IS OWNED BY US ( TURKISH CYPRIOT AND GREEK CYPRIOT ) LETS KICK ALL THE IMPERIALISTS POWERS AND MAKE A INDEPENDENT UNITED CYPRUS ...

The best solution is this i think ..
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Postby MicAtCyp » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:10 pm

Welcome to the forum Kipraie.(=Kibrisli)

Your observations are correct, but the problem is how to kick away all those who lead us and, all those who lick them, and all those who profit from the situation.
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Postby iskismet » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:31 pm

I'm not convinced that the EU can be classed in the same category as Greece, Turkey, the USA or any other country.

It is the EU that is encouraging and bringing about economic changes which will improve the economy of Cyprus and may help to bring peace.
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Postby Chrisswirl » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:41 pm

iskismet is right in that the EU can't be lumped with the other countries. But Britain, a part of the EU, sure can. Britain has never accepted it's responsibility as the "divide and ruler" of Cyprus. Greeks and Turks have always lived in peace until they are told to hate by others (by the Greek nationalists and Turkish officials in Anatolian Turkey... of course, the Greeks were encouraged by the powers at the time), and by the British in Kypros / Kibris (followed again by Greek Nationalists and Turkish Army leaders).
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Postby insan » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:42 pm

Greeks and Turks have always lived in peace until they are told to hate by others (by the Greek nationalists and Turkish officials in Anatolian Turkey... of course, the Greeks were encouraged by the powers at the time), and by the British in Kypros / Kibris (followed again by Greek Nationalists and Turkish Army leaders).



I think our primary problem is the stereotypes in our minds which have been put by others and we haven't questioned them yet. Do someone hates another one just because he/she was told?


Actually Greeks and GCs(At least a part of) believed that Cyprus was a Greek Island and all colonialists(British & TCs i.e Ottoman Turks of Cyprus) should be removed... That's what they struggled for more than a hundred years.... Some of them prefered to struggle politicaly and some others prefered to struggle with guns and bombs...


On the other hand; TCs considered Cyprus as their Country as much as their GC compatriots and some of the TCs prefered to struggle politicaly to be as free and politicaly equal as GC community in a united Cyprus; some others prefered to struggle with guns and bombs for a seperate state in Cyprus.


TCs were always against Enosis and GCs were always willing to achieve Enosis... GC community was aware of that they were descendants of Greeks and TC community aware of that they were descendants of Turks.


Being the outnumbered community of Cyprus, the leadership of GC community always wanted to dominate the TC community that were less in numbers but never have been less than 1-5.

The core of the problem is this. The leadership of GC community have always defended that "majority rule, TCs are minority of Cyprus". Who told this to GC community? Greeks or Brits? It's no matter who told to them. It is either created by leadership of GC community or other countries...


What important is that TCs didn't/don't believe/want to be a minority in Cyprus. The mebers of TC community other than extremists which mainly aimed to serve Turkey's geopolitical interests wish to be the politicaly equal partner of GC community. I'm sure %80 of TC community wish to be the politicaly equal partner of GC community...


The question is that what percentage of GC community believe and wish that TC Community should be their politicaly equal partner? If %80 of GC community wish TC community as their politicaly equal partner; then majority of both communities can come together to struggle against the seperatist and divisive elements within their country and from outside... but if vast majority of GC community don't want the TC community as their politicaly equal partner in Cyprus; be sure of that majority of TC community would prefer to live with Turkish army and the settlers as they have done in the past 40 years...
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Postby Piratis » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:40 pm

I agree with Kibrisli in what he said.

THIS ISLAND IS OWNED BY US ( TURKISH CYPRIOT AND GREEK CYPRIOT ) LETS KICK ALL THE IMPERIALISTS POWERS AND MAKE A INDEPENDENT UNITED CYPRUS ...


LETS MAKE OUR OWN PLAN AND MAKE OUR ISLAND AS A " PEACE ISLAND "


Kibrisli, what do you think about this as the main principles for a solution:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus211.html

I think our primary problem is the stereotypes in our minds which have been put by others and we haven't questioned them yet.


I agree with this. One of the stereotypes that is put in your mind Insan is that you believe that there is something wrong with being a minority and that minority = domination by majority. This is simply not true. In democracies there are always minorities and majorities, thats a fundamental part of democracy. There is nothing wrong with saying that Turkish Cypriots are a minority. Who told us that this is the case is the most precise science of all: Maths. The question is who told you that you are not a minority?

We discussed this in a separate thread (with 100s of posts) so there is no need to start again. What I am saying is that when you talk about stereotypes maybe you should also try to see what are your own stereotypes before you judge others.

We got over the enosis cause, we got over the "Cyprus is Greek" etc. I think is time for you to get over your taksim cause and the "minority = domination by majority" stereotype.

Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, and we are all equal as people. Cyprus should be democratic, with respect to all human rights, which will guarantee that nobody (person of group) will be able to dominate or hurt another.
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Postby Chrisswirl » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:45 pm

Although I am tired and so have not read deeply into what he has said, something that Piratis has said I agree with.

"Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, and we are all equal as people. Cyprus should be democratic, with respect to all human rights, which will guarantee that nobody (person of group) will be able to dominate or hurt another."

The Greek Cypriots want protection from the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriots want protection of their say in government and I think that both should be granted this for the sake of unity in Cyprus and friendship between neighbours.
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Postby insan » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:09 pm

The question is who told you that you are not a minority?


We, ourselves told us that we are not a minority. there's no minority in the world that are 1/5 of the total population. Even in 60s constitution only the Maronites, Armenians and Latins have been defined as minorities of Cyprus. TC Community is the equal partner of GC community, either majority of GC community accept or not...
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Postby insan » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:15 pm

Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, and we are all equal as people.


TCs have that equality as people in UK, Australia and wherever they majorly live in the world but in our country we are both equals of GCs as people and politicaly equal partner of GC community as TC community. Settlers, Guarantor powers, properties, land ownership are other issues...
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Postby erolz » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm

Piratis wrote: In democracies there are always minorities and majorities, thats a fundamental part of democracy.


but these minorites and majorites are not fixed and permanent in a true democracy. They change from issue to issue. In cyprus a TC will always be a TC and in a minority in any issue that relates to the will of the GC population against the wishes of the TC population and the TC majority wishes will ALWAYS loose out to GC in such situations. This is not democracy. This is domination. There is nothing anti democratic in the concept of one community one vote - if you accept partnership and equality on those issue where there communites have different aspirations - which you refuse to do.

Piratis wrote:
There is nothing wrong with saying that Turkish Cypriots are a minority. Who told us that this is the case is the most precise science of all: Maths. The question is who told you that you are not a minority?


The issue (of political minority or not) is nothing to do with maths. If it were then maths would apply the same within the EU and within Cyprus. Same old arguments, same old false mainpulated logic :(

Piratis wrote:
We got over the enosis cause, we got over the "Cyprus is Greek" etc. I think is time for you to get over your taksim cause and the "minority = domination by majority" stereotype.


You have got over the enosis cause and over the Cyprus is Greek cause but you have not got over the Cyprus is Greek Cypriot cause. Taksim is not a only a cause but a reality. If we are to agree to reverse this reality then we will expect a bit more respect than - your community can exists as a political minority with a GC state.

Piratis wrote:
Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots, and we are all equal as people. Cyprus should be democratic, with respect to all human rights, which will guarantee that nobody (person of group) will be able to dominate or hurt another.


There are no human rights protections for TC as a group of people (not just individuals) that guarantee things that we consider vital to TC as a group within Cyprus - if you insit that we are nothing more than a politcal minority within Cyprus. Nothing that guarantees Turkish as an offical language. Nothing that guarantees a right to the TC to run TC state schools and any number of other issues. Can you show me a single clause in the UN charter of human rights that would protect a TC community in Cyprus from a GC majority on these kind of issues - if we are to be recgonised as a minority - which you inist that we must?

These rights of TC as a group in Cyprus would only be recognised with a recogniton of Cyprus as an 'equal partnership' of the two groups of people. You accept that we can have these things and that even we have a right to them but refuse to recognise a status of the TC community that is consistent with this acceptance.

You repeatedly offer 'special' protections on these things in the form of 'special' articles in the Cyprus consitituion whilst also inisting that the TC community have no actual basis for these 'special protections' as rights. As such they are worthless as 'protections' as far as I am concerned. If you inist that TC are politicaly a minority in Cyprus then any 'special' rights you grant now in the consitution (and state are unchangeable) are in contradiction to human rights as they are written. You simply can not have both things - insit that TC are a political minority and also insist that our rights as a group will be protected by human rights converntions as they are currently written. As human rights are written if we are deemed a minority then we have NO right to Turkish being an offical language, no right to TC run state schools and no rights to a whole raft of other things that are of importance to the TC community in Cyprus. Your inistance that we be recognisded as nothing more than a minority is then effectively a denial that we have such rights - and agreeing to 'unenforcable / unjustifiyable' (according to human rights charters) 'special' protections in the consitituion does little to disguise this for me.
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