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FIRST EQUALITY REQUEST BY TCs

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby insan » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:46 am

Many of them do, they are written by humans. Even the book that most people swear by it is full of lies.


The only one who knows what is true or lie is you... So why don't you write a book full of truths to make us all laugh at you? ;)


I disagree. What will create something healthy is if all of us stop trying to gain as much as possible and simply start obeying the laws, human rights and democracy. Nothing is perfect, but a true democracy along with full respect to human rights is the best we can have.



That's right and "political equality" of two communities is one of the democratic rights...


Cypriots have the right to determine the future of the island. That includes me and you. Not you you you you you and me.



That's right but Cypriots comprise of two major communities with a single self determination right which recognized by internationaly.



It doesn't restrict it at all. Actually what I proposed several times boasts TC participation. Nobody is the master of anybody. We are all equal Cypriots. The law should make sure that democracy functions and that no person or group is imposed on another person or group.



I'm sure it was you who said that TCs shouldn't have the right to use them free will on "some" matters. And you still didn't tell us what are those "some" matters. You are simply making discrimination which is a direct violation of human rights.



The "GC-interested" democracy as you call it is already accepted by all democratic countries in the most official way: They apply it to their own countries. (or thats what they claim at least)



Of coarse none of them have an ethnic community which is 1/5 of their total population and recognized as one of the constituent community by an international treaty.


I know, and it has noting to do with what you are demanding.



Apparantly you don't know....


So if TCs were 1/10th they wouldn't demand these things. Now they are 1.8/10th even claiming that such demands are outrageous is considered nonsence? What exactly changes from 1/10th to 1.8/10th?



What has happened the rest do you think? Died? They all waiting a fair, secure and viable solution to return to their country. Don't worry about it. TCs will never be less than 1/5 of the total population.



Non of my dreams is based on the violations of other people basic human rights.



You make discrimination... it's more than enough....


I don't know about what dreams you have.



I made all my dreams visible to you and I believe there's nothing violates anyones rights...


If you want to quote me there is a very easy way to do it (copy-paste .. you know it), there is no need to put in my mouth things that I never said.


They are the things what you wanted to mean....


I don't hate you. But I admit that sometimes you (in general not personally) piss me of so much is kinda hard to keep calm .. but I am trying



Hehehehe... Be honest and feel free to espress your feelings about me. I like honest people even we disagree ;)


Anarchy is a theory. Humans will always have masters. The best we can do is to try to control these masters, and the best available way is democracy.



That's what TC community have been struggling for more than a century.
Last edited by insan on Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby insan » Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:04 am

Ask yourself if the TC were in the majority would they throw this advantage away?



I don't know what majority of TCs would do but I'd struggle for the community which had 1/5 of total population, in order to provide them "political equality" on legislative and judicial bodies. Because I really believe that there's nothing to lose for the outnumbered community. If you believe that the outnumbered community lose in United Cyprus based on the system I proposed; please tell me a few things that would cause this system them to lose...


In US Senate, "x" people from each state have two Senators in Senate. Why?
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Postby insan » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:02 am

It didn't work in 1960 (the TCs were instrumental in making sure it didn't work) and it will not work now.



Many things have changed iskismet...

1- In 60s constitution representation and participation on executive body were disproportional, unfair and this was one of the main reason which made GC community to dissatisfy.

2- There's no cold war era anymore. It is a fact that circumstances of cold war had negatively affected the relations of Countries and the ideological groups within the countries.


3- It has been understood that neither Enosis nor Taksim ideas are not viable anymore. Though I'm sure there are still some extremists groups in both communities who plan to Hellenize/Divide Cyprus. If you need evidences, just read the dailies Machi, Volkan, Simerini and Vatan.


What I'm trying to point out that if the proportional representation/participation on executive body is fixed; equal power sharing on legislative and judicial bodies will bring us the viability of the United Cyprus State.


In my opinion, the main problems are the settlers, properties and the definition of intervention right of guarantors.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:11 pm

Insan brother, giving a link, helps others check the reliability of the site. The people back in 1890 were extremely poor, hunger was stricking the inhabitants from one end of the island to the other. The number one priority of the people was to find something to eat, I remember my mother was born in the 30s telling us that they would eat meat only in Cristmas and Easter.They were always hungry, their clothes were rags, and were walking bearfoot. The richest people were the ones who had some halloumi (hellim) at home... I remember when I was about 4 years old (early 60s) there were still people living in caves in Nicosia-would you beleive it (behind there where the Pittas dairy is today) i remember another kid in my neighbourhood was always completely naked both in Summer and in Winter. People back in 1890 needed one week to travel from one town to another using their donkeys!

And then I read in this report that they sent a "telegram" from Cyprus in 1892 when this device was just invented in 1832 and all it's use 10 years after in the USA was just to connect Baltimore with another nearby town! At a time when there was not even electricity in Cyprus. In another report you posted it said that they "wrote letters and sent to each and every... "By who wrote those letters?The 99.9% of the peasants who could not even write their names?

It seems to me these reports try to give a version of events as if during those times back in 1890 the society in Cyprus was highly organised and had nothing more serious to think other than issues of equality, organised reactions, and issues of nationalistic dreams.My bother, both Christians and Muslims in Cyprus were brothers in hunger and poverty back then.That was the only truth beleive me. The rest were only in the heads of some elitists...
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Postby insan » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:12 pm

Dear brother MicAtCyp... Here's a more reliable source which I know you too trust it and the research had been made by a GC PhD; verify what had been written in that article.


http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~durduran/dergi/kalou2.htm
http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~durduran/dergi/kalou3.htm
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Postby insan » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:45 pm

Turkish Cypriot reaction to the campaign for enosis

It is often alleged that Turkish Cypriots were roused to oppose enosis by the British colonialists, but there was a core of opposition in the Turkish Cypriot community from an early stage. Consider the following excerpt from a speech made by Zekia, a Turkish Cypriot member of the Legislative Council, in 1930.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We vehemently protest against this [pro-enosis] representation as we have always done in the past. We believe that if Cyprus were annexed to Greece there would be no chance of life for the Moslems in Cyprus. We know that the Greeks are in the majority in Cyprus, but there are many other countries in the world similar to Cyprus which are being administered by foreigners in spite of the fact that the majority of the people belong to another race. As is known to you, there is no principle in international law providing for the annexation of every country to the country which is homogeneous to it. Therefore I am surprised that my honorable Greek colleagues feel able to base this claim on international law. It would be possible to benefit the island much more if the question of union were set aside and of all the members of the Council were united in the taking of measures calculated to promote the development and progress of the country . . . . The divergent national feelings and sentiments prevailing in the island would make impossible the administration of justice in the island.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Cyprus and the Governorship of Sir Ronald Storrs, by George Georghalides.



Does it seem to you that the both communities only concerns were about hunger and poverty? do you believe that only the Zakia and the likes had been worrying about Enosis and majority of TCs were ready to accept Enosis?

You and me have a very good friendship; "brotherhood" but if you tell me that you wish Enosis and Hellenization of Cyprus; you damage our good relations. And be sure of that I'll take my guard and look for any kind of protection I'm able to get, in order to defend my existence and human dignity. That's what TC had done from the first day they heard about a group of GCs Enosis demand.

Did they do everything right while they were struggling against Enosis? No of coarse... but claiming "political equality" on legislative and judicial bodies wasn't one of their mistakes...
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Postby Piratis » Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:37 am

In US Senate, "x" people from each state have two Senators in Senate. Why?


Question: Can a single state block any decision it wants in the US senate?
Also, in the USA, California has 2 senators, while Wyoming with 60 times less population has 2 also. So why is it that you can not accept that the other minorities in Cyprus (Armenians, Latins, Maronites) can have 2 senators also? This is clearly a double standard, which is only aim is to give the TCs an effective veto on everything, something that it is not the case in the USA.

As is known to you, there is no principle in international law providing for the annexation of every country to the country which is homogeneous to it.


No, this is known only to the person called George Georghalides and the ones who want to believe it:

The Declaration states that "the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the United Nations Charter, and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation, and that steps should be taken to transfer, unconditionally, all powers to the Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories so that they might enjoy complete freedom and independence".


Also in 1960, the Assembly approved resolution 1541 (XV), defining free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm


Here you can find the "Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories" this refers to: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonization/trust2.htm and you can see Cyprus (as a whole) is included.

You talk about opinions of some people. I talk with UN resolutions. Who makes international laws? Mr. George Georghalides and Insan? I don't think so.
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:56 am

If I were an enosis supporter and if I had the common sense to realise that enosis now simply isn't on, what would be the next best thing for me to struggle for?

What do you think?
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Postby Piratis » Sun Sep 12, 2004 8:42 am

Bananiot wrote:if I had the common sense


If you had the common sense then you wouldn't support the Turkish propaganda.

I remind you that at that time more than 90% of Greek Cypriots supported enosis. So What is your conclusion? What do you think that the 90% of Greek Cypriots want today?

The great majority wants a fair and viable solution that will let our refugees to return to their homes and democracy and human rights to be applied on the whole island.
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:02 am

Wrong answer Piratis. Try again.
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