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Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:22 am

Buying the Greek Junk (as they turned out to be ) was simply corporate greed on the part of the *ankers, who saw some easy money, but Buying Greek bonds that turned into Junk was only a part of the Cyprus Economic Crisis, and "g"IG you are deluded if you think the *anks were
driven by outside forces to orchestrate the downfall of the economy and attain control over the ordinary people


The problems with the Cypriot economy were primarily internal caused by too many people, companies and bodies, living beyond their means - in particular certain businesses who borrowed massively and cannot pay back, (represented by the massive "NPL's") and the state (under Chris Toffee-Arse in particular) that spent, spent, spent without regard to income. Some of it was it was down to people borrowing to much to buy the big house or the big Mercedes.

Result? The Biggest supermarket chain went down the pan, the *anking sector had to be restructured, with closure of the second biggest bank and the rebuilding of the co-op sector. The construction sector is in crises - com[pounded by the tittles deeds issues linked to developers' loans. which in my view constitute a fraud on the property buyers affected as they were not being given free and legal tittle unencumbered by pre-existing loans as they should have been.

The ordinary people I feel truly sorry for are those who were modest in their ambitions and life style, borrowed modestly and paid back on a regular basis to buy a reasonable house and/or car but then have had their pay cut or been made redundant through no fault of their own, so they can no longer continue to pay back.

As for Greece? ...another delusion.....? I don't thing Greece holds any hope for Europe. Even if Greece were to leave the Eurozone (the "Grexit")the debts still have to be repaid and I doubt anyone outside Greece will take any "Neo Drachma" since as fiat money it will probably collapse in value very fast - expect hyper-inflation - and the Euro might remain as an unofficial Currency as it will retain relative value.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:37 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Lordo, the banks are a law unto themselves. They were driven by outside forces to orchestrate the downfall of the economy and attain control over the ordinary people.

It's time for people to distance themselves from banks.

Europe, and especially the UK (as the article points out) is looking to Greece to make the first break-away move from the bankers' controls.

are you sure that was the problem and not greek people not paying tax. when the list was sent to the tax inspectors from swtizerland, the government excluded their friends from the lists. you must be living in a different world to us. normal rules do not apply to greece. well i have news for you, so long as they reside in this world, it is this world rules they have to abide by.

what was the highest earning declared in the whole of greece, 90,000 euros. the government reverted to flying helicopters to charge swimming poll tax because of non payment. you really need to get out a bit more.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:00 am

Here is a more accurate assessment from Gregory T Papanikos - Professor in Economics

The Greek economy, after five years of recession, has nearly reached the top of the hill it has been climbing. But there is a real threat that in just a few months it will roll back down again.

Like Sisyphus, the ill-fated king in Greek mythology, Greece’s achievements are at risk with the looming parliamentary election of a new president, which the official opposition (the Coalition of the Radical Left, better known as Syriza) is intent on blocking in order to call for early general elections. The group is tipped to win and there is no doubt that this would roll Greece back down to where it started in 2010, if not even deeper into the abyss. It is more probable now than ever before.

This need not be the case even if early elections are called. The problem is that Syriza is scaring investors away with its polyphony on important economic matters such as foreign direct investments and badly needed structural reforms, whether or not the austerity measures are continued. Syriza is also scaring the governments of other eurozone countries because its erratic policy on Greece’s debt could destabilise the euro and eventually force Greece out of the eurozone. Most importantly, though, it is scaring Greek consumers away by shaking their confidence on the future course of the Greek economy, which might possibly result in a bank run.

http://theconversation.com/a-syriza-ele ... eece-35576

So the question needs to be asked.

Why on earth would Syriza risk all the hard work that has already been done? Greece is in a position where it can see the light at the end of the tunnel so why risk it?

I understand that the people are fed up with the Austerity, but if Greece regresses, Austerity is only going to be worse in a few years time.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Jerry » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:05 am

The Greeks would soon learn the mistake they made if Syriza get in and the loans dry up. With no cash to import fuel the country will go back to the stone age. Greece is a relatively small part of the EU, I think the EU would allow it to self destruct in order to set an example to others.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:19 am

Jerry wrote:The Greeks would soon learn the mistake they made if Syriza get in and the loans dry up. With no cash to import fuel the country will go back to the stone age. Greece is a relatively small part of the EU, I think the EU would allow it to self destruct in order to set an example to others.


Personally, I think Siriza are pandering to the popularist Leftists who would vote for them. It's about getting the votes.

They are in other words doing what politicians do best, particularly in Greece and Cyprus. they are lieing out of their arse, big time.

Once they are in power, they will be fully in line with the current Austerity Measures in place, and be Germany's little lap dogs, and follow all the criteria as promised by the previous administration. Otherwise, it's the big boot out of the Eurozone! Greece will end up like Cuba and North Korea.

However, even their rhetoric can be damaging if it scares off investors. And once they lose confidence, then it's back to square 1.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Jerry » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:18 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Jerry wrote:The Greeks would soon learn the mistake they made if Syriza get in and the loans dry up. With no cash to import fuel the country will go back to the stone age. Greece is a relatively small part of the EU, I think the EU would allow it to self destruct in order to set an example to others.


Personally, I think Siriza are pandering to the popularist Leftists who would vote for them. It's about getting the votes.

They are in other words doing what politicians do best, particularly in Greece and Cyprus. they are lieing out of their arse, big time.

Once they are in power, they will be fully in line with the current Austerity Measures in place, and be Germany's little lap dogs, and follow all the criteria as promised by the previous administration. Otherwise, it's the big boot out of the Eurozone! Greece will end up like Cuba and North Korea.

However, even their rhetoric can be damaging if it scares off investors. And once they lose confidence, then it's back to square 1.


Agree, once they see the books they will realise they have been talking out of their backsides and reality will hit home.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:18 pm

we have had capitalism galore since the war and still you boys are brainwashed against socialism. unbelievable. all the americans gladios work seems not to have been in vain. talk of terggy voting for xmass bayram. banaiyamu gavole.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:33 pm

Lordo wrote:are you sure that was the problem and not greek people not paying tax...


I'm sure.

The average Greek worker had tax deducted at source from their wage packets (some of the smallest wage earnings in the whole EU). Some of the problems were induced by the foreigners with holiday homes that made the country seem more populated than it was, yet they paid no tax to Greece, and again, it was mostly foreign holiday-home owners that had the swimming pools which did not have permits and avoided the taxes. All these things have now been addressed - and still they find new excuses with which to hammer the average Greek.

What has been ignored, I must agree, is the super-wealthy who have tax havens abroad. Now, this is a global problem, certainly a major problem for all European states, especially Great Britain, and this should be what is tackled first and foremost. But of course, this super-wealthy subculture includes politicians, and bankers and they are untouchable - in ALL countries not just Greece or Cyprus.

Greece doesn't need loans. It needs to be left alone to do what it does best - work and live. It doesn't need to be force-fed money, with attachments, that goes straight back to Germany yet leaves the Greeks looking like they OWE something.

Greeks do NOT owe anyone anything!

Yet, the rest of the world owes, oooohhh, so much ....
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Paphitis » Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:42 pm

Well it looks like GiG has lost the plot well and truly!

Old age dementia methinks! :lol:
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:52 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Lordo wrote:are you sure that was the problem and not greek people not paying tax...


I'm sure.

The average Greek worker had tax deducted at source from their wage packets (some of the smallest wage earnings in the whole EU). Some of the problems were induced by the foreigners with holiday homes that made the country seem more populated than it was, yet they paid no tax to Greece, and again, it was mostly foreign holiday-home owners that had the swimming pools which did not have permits and avoided the taxes. All these things have now been addressed - and still they find new excuses with which to hammer the average Greek.

What has been ignored, I must agree, is the super-wealthy who have tax havens abroad. Now, this is a global problem, certainly a major problem for all European states, especially Great Britain, and this should be what is tackled first and foremost. But of course, this super-wealthy subculture includes politicians, and bankers and they are untouchable - in ALL countries not just Greece or Cyprus.

Greece doesn't need loans. It needs to be left alone to do what it does best - work and live. It doesn't need to be force-fed money, with attachments, that goes straight back to Germany yet leaves the Greeks looking like they OWE something.

Greeks do NOT owe anyone anything!

Yet, the rest of the world owes, oooohhh, so much ....

really, what about the billions they were loaned just recently. they will have to pay it back with interest. of course they could sell the islands to terggy and pay back some of the interest.

of course the working class pay their taxes, what about the rich, do they declare the correct earnings. what was the highest decleration 90,000 euros. really no company in greece earns more than 90,000 euros in a year. lets face it greece as well as groc are corrupt through and through. there is no cure other than raise it to the ground and start again. one more time.
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