Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

- I guess we're back to the Turkish mindset that wrecked Cyprus. The blank refusal to improve a given set of conditions when they are found to be archaic and unworkable and undemocratic. Instead of following democracy, the Turks chose land grabs.

I'm a little unsure about what I'm wrong about, but when it comes to land grabs I yield to the experts:

1832 - Greece Independence
1863 - Greece "grabs" Ionian Islands
1881 - Greece "grabs" Thesally
1908 - Greece "grabs" Crete
1913 - Greece "grabs" Macedonia
1920 - Greece "grabs" Western Anatolia (failure)
1927 - Greece "grabs" Western Thrace
1947 - Greece "grabs" Dodecanese
1974 - Greece "grabs" Cyprus (failure)

1923 - Republic of Turkey founded.
1939 - Turkey "grabs" Hatay
1974 - Turkey "grabs" Cyprus

I've used "grabs" as a neutral word to cover all border changes, violent and peaceful, but it does seem that historically Greece has been a bit of an expansionist country.

Are you entirely serious? If a thief grabs my purse and I take it back, then I am in the same thieving league as him?

The Turks came from the East. Every inch they occupy at the moment is historically recorded as belonging to other people.

[Lordo]

if only life was as simple as your purse. greace was under ottomans control for hundreds of years in the same was as the all the countries were under greak control for hundreds of years. you invaded and murdered people like all the barbarians before you and after you.

you really need to get out more often.

[observer]

- I guess we're back to the Turkish mindset that wrecked Cyprus. The blank refusal to improve a given set of conditions when they are found to be archaic and unworkable and undemocratic. Instead of following democracy, the Turks chose land grabs.

I'm a little unsure about what I'm wrong about, but when it comes to land grabs I yield to the experts:

1832 - Greece Independence
1863 - Greece "grabs" Ionian Islands
1881 - Greece "grabs" Thesally
1908 - Greece "grabs" Crete
1913 - Greece "grabs" Macedonia
1920 - Greece "grabs" Western Anatolia (failure)
1927 - Greece "grabs" Western Thrace
1947 - Greece "grabs" Dodecanese
1974 - Greece "grabs" Cyprus (failure)

1923 - Republic of Turkey founded.
1939 - Turkey "grabs" Hatay
1974 - Turkey "grabs" Cyprus

I've used "grabs" as a neutral word to cover all border changes, violent and peaceful, but it does seem that historically Greece has been a bit of an expansionist country.

Are you entirely serious? If a thief grabs my purse and I take it back, then I am in the same thieving league as him?

The Turks came from the East. Every inch they occupy at the moment is historically recorded as belonging to other people.

... and you amazing Greeks just came about because the Gods came down from Olympia to an empty land and had sex with a variety of animals .................... actually that does make some sort of sense.

Anyway, wrong thread. Open another one if you want to discuss who grabbed what and where.

[Get Real!]

... and you amazing Greeks just came about because the Gods came down from Olympia to an empty land...

It's Olympus.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Who would have believed tiny Greece with only 10 Million people and less than 2% of the EU's economic might could possibly have caused so much *concern*.

We must be looking at a monumental moment in history. After the Queen's vibrant and diplomatic appeal to the EU (last week) to remember its reasons for coming together in mutual support and to prevent divisions that cause problems - we now have the Archbishop of Canterbury and various leading intellectuals joining the rising support for brave Greece!

His letter (from The Guardian):

Over the past five years, the EU and the IMF have imposed unprecedented austerity on Greece. It has failed badly. The economy has shrunk by 26%, unemployment has risen to 27%, youth unemployment to 60% and, the debt-to-GDP ratio jumped from 120% to 180%. The economic catastrophe has led to a humanitarian crisis, with more than 3 million people on or below the poverty line.

Against this background, the Greek people elected the Syriza-led government on 25 January with a clear mandate to put an end to austerity. In the ensuing negotiations, the government made it clear that the future of Greece is in the Eurozone and the EU. The lenders, however, insisted on the continuation of their failed recipe, refused to discuss a write down of the debt – which the IMF is on record as considering unviable – and finally, on 26 June, issued an ultimatum to Greece by means of a non-negotiable package that would entrench austerity. This was followed by a suspension of liquidity to the Greek banks and the imposition of capital controls.

In this situation, the government has asked the Greek people to decide the future of the country in a referendum to be held next Sunday. We believe that this ultimatum to the Greek people and democracy should be rejected. The Greek referendum gives the European Union a chance to restate its commitment to the values of the enlightenment – equality, justice, solidarity – and to the principles of democracy on which its legitimacy rests. The place where democracy was born gives Europe the opportunity to recommit to its ideals in the 21st century.

Etienne Balibar

Costas Douzinas

Barbara Spinelli

Rowan Williams

Immanuel Wallerstein

Slavoj Zizek

Michael Mansfield

Judith Butler

Chantal Mouffe

Homi Bhabha

Wendy Brown

Eric Fassin

Tariq Ali

[GreekIslandGirl]

Solidarity with Greece - rally in London ... now ... live:

[miltiades]

I have on numerous occasions posted derogatory posts on Greece, mostly because I believe that Greece did not act at any time for the interests of my nation , the island I call my true and only one motherland. However I have never denied the special relationship that we G/Cs have with Greece , a nation with which we share so much culture.

This time Greece is facing severe financial problems and only a complete idiot would rejoice with Greece's position right now.

I believe that Greece as a European nation should remain in the Eurozone and the EU, I also believe that European bankers dislike the new government and they would do all that they can to discredit it and bring it down.

I wish Greece all the luck, and hopefully this could be a lesson so that further economic tragedies are avoided.

[Cap]

Solidarity with Greece - rally in London ... now ... live:

Greece really needs austerity and desperately.
if it's not going to be under EU then maybe they can overhaul the system under the Drachma.
Either way it's gotto be done otherwise they wont move forward.
Good luck to the people.

[Linichka]

For sure, wishing good luck to all the Greek people. I don't know what is the best route for them, but I hope that they determine it and get sorted out. These are bleak days. May they quickly brighten.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Greece really needs austerity and desperately.

You and the swindling bankers are the only ones who think so!

Support from UK MPs for cancelling the banker-created debts:

Cancel Greek debt, Jeremy Corbyn urges PM

The Labour leadership contender Jeremy Corbyn is among 19 Labour MPs who have called on David Cameron to take steps with other European leaders to cancel Greece’s debt as a “signal to the banks and financiers that we won’t keep bailing them out for reckless lending”.

A letter, published in the Guardian, was also signed by the Trades Union Congress and Unite general secretaries and MPs including Diane Abbott, who is standing for the party’s nomination to be London mayor, Michael Meacher and John McDonnell.


“We call on David Cameron to support the organisation of a European conference to agree debt cancellation for Greece and other countries that need it, informed by debt audits and funded by recovering money from the banks and financial speculators who were the real beneficiaries of bailouts,” the letter reads.

“We believe there must be an end to the enforcing of austerity policies that are causing injustice and poverty in Europe and across the world,” it says. “We urge the creation of UN rules to deal with government debt crises promptly, fairly and with respect for human rights, and to signal to the banks and financiers that we won’t keep bailing them out for reckless lending.”

“There is an escalating crisis of Greek society,” he said. “There is no sane solution to the situation in Greece that involves repaying this debt. The only sensible way forward is to cancel the Greek debt – or at least substantial swaths of it – and for the international community to support Greece’s democratically elected government to rebuild its society and its economy.

“I ask my fellow Labour leadership candidates to echo this call to the prime minister, and for him to heed this call. It is in our own interests to do so.”

The Green MP Caroline Lucas, also a signatory, will attend an event in Trafalgar Square on Monday evening organised by the Greece Solidarity Campaign to call for an end to imposed austerity in Greece.

“Austerity in Greece has been a profound failure, in both human and economic terms. Poverty and unemployment have skyrocketed while government debt as a proportion of GDP has grown by over 40%,” said Lucas.

“It’s time that European governments think again about how to tackle the crisis in Greece. A first step, which I’m urging David Cameron to support, is to bring together a European debt conference based on what happened in 1953 to help Germany’s economy recover after the war.”

Lucas said Greece’s social fabric could not take more public sector spending cuts before it was torn apart. “It’s time for Europe’s leaders, including David Cameron, to stand up for democracy and back a credible solution to Greece’s dire problems,” she said.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-tells-pm