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Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:53 pm

there is always the gun against the head choice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:36 pm

"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Cap » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:42 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...


http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/01 ... e-with-eu/
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:55 pm

Cap wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...


http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/01 ... e-with-eu/


That's an old report. :roll:

The Spanish answer to Syriza shows its strength ahead of November’s election
Feb 7th 2015 | MADRID | From the print edition

First Madrid, then Spain
THEY were hailed as heirs to those who fought Napoleon’s troops with knives and stones in Madrid’s streets in 1808 or who brought down Spain’s monarchy in the 1930s. But the 150,000 people who gathered on January 31st in Madrid’s Puerta del Sol for a rally by Podemos (“We Can”), Spain’s answer to Greece’s Syriza party, were not street-fighters. Most were middle-aged and middle-class.


http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... n-can-they

The rest of Europe still lag (intellectually, fearlessly) behind Greece; but they'll get there, too .... eventually. :D
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:38 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...


Greece is making a huge gamble ahead of 3% projected GDP growth which actually will outstrip Australia's GDP growth in 2015 (the highest in the OECD).

Remember, when I was saying that Greece should play hardball back in 2010 - 2012 before the Austerity measures were introduced and perhaps even hit back at them by introducing the Drachma which it can manipulate. That was a huge gamble them too, but back then Greece had nothing to lose from it. It would have been pretty shit either way but at least Greece would have got its own knife in before they got their knife into Greece with brutal austerity.

Now, after all the suffering, Greece may have turned the corner (we hope). 3% growth and declining unemployment is not to be scoffed at or put into jeopardy.

The Greek Sovereign Debt received a reasonable haircut and all loans are being re-issued at reduced interest rates with better terms. The Eurozone will not be swayed to do more, that much is very clear and I think they will prefer to boot Greece out if they default now. They will also cut Greece off and that will lead to a shutdown.

Tsibras knows this, and I seriously doubt he is going to push things further outside of negotiations.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:37 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Cap wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...


http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/01 ... e-with-eu/


That's an old report. :roll:

The Spanish answer to Syriza shows its strength ahead of November’s election
Feb 7th 2015 | MADRID | From the print edition

First Madrid, then Spain
THEY were hailed as heirs to those who fought Napoleon’s troops with knives and stones in Madrid’s streets in 1808 or who brought down Spain’s monarchy in the 1930s. But the 150,000 people who gathered on January 31st in Madrid’s Puerta del Sol for a rally by Podemos (“We Can”), Spain’s answer to Greece’s Syriza party, were not street-fighters. Most were middle-aged and middle-class.


http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... n-can-they

The rest of Europe still lag (intellectually, fearlessly) behind Greece; but they'll get there, too .... eventually. :D

you wish

greece will pay back every penny they borrowed with interest. add to that she will now pay 10 times the interest she was offered under the old terms for any new money she borrows and you may just get an idea what it means to the eu or the greeks.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Paphitis » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:20 am

Lordo wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Cap wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:"Indeed, the country no longer considers the troika to have a valid institutional status."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... g-alliance

All Greece needs now is for Spain et al to show the same level of bravery ...


http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/01 ... e-with-eu/


That's an old report. :roll:

The Spanish answer to Syriza shows its strength ahead of November’s election
Feb 7th 2015 | MADRID | From the print edition

First Madrid, then Spain
THEY were hailed as heirs to those who fought Napoleon’s troops with knives and stones in Madrid’s streets in 1808 or who brought down Spain’s monarchy in the 1930s. But the 150,000 people who gathered on January 31st in Madrid’s Puerta del Sol for a rally by Podemos (“We Can”), Spain’s answer to Greece’s Syriza party, were not street-fighters. Most were middle-aged and middle-class.


http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... n-can-they

The rest of Europe still lag (intellectually, fearlessly) behind Greece; but they'll get there, too .... eventually. :D

you wish

greece will pay back every penny they borrowed with interest. add to that she will now pay 10 times the interest she was offered under the old terms for any new money she borrows and you may just get an idea what it means to the eu or the greeks.


Read it and weep!

Greece has hit back demanding War Reparations and apparently it's going to take Germany on in the ICJ! :D

The new Government is the most Nationalistic Government Greece has ever had!

One thing is for sure. They are fighting and sticking it up the Troika at the moment.

With all the pain and misery Germany caused Greece in WW2, I think about 437 Billion Euros should cover it! :D
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:39 pm

Germany agrees to pay Syriza for another four months to come up with European reforms to beat austerity. :P

The Eurogroup today discussed the first list of reform measures presented by the Greek authorities, based on the current arrangement, which will be further specified and then agreed with the institutions at the latest by the end of April. The institutions [IMF/ECB/EU] provided us with their first view that they consider this list of measures to be sufficiently comprehensive to be a valid starting point for a successful conclusion of the review.

We therefore agreed to proceed with the national procedures with a view to reaching the final decision on the extension by up to four months of the current Master Financial Assistance Facility Agreement.

We call on the Greek authorities to further develop and broaden the list of reform measures, based on the current arrangement, in close coordination with the institutions in order to allow for a speedy and successful conclusion of the review.

Guardian
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:23 pm

not quite.

Dear Jeroen,

My Staff has reviewed the list of measures which the Greek authorities submitted yesterday evening. Our initial impression is that the document covers a wide range of reform areas and in this sense, it is sufficiently comprehensive to be a valid starting point for a successful conclusion of the review. However, as we expected it was not possible for the authorities to elaborate on concrete proposals and commitments that can be assessed by the institutions in respect to growth, public finances and financial stability. Given the very limited time available, this is understandable.

I assume that it is clear that the basis for concluding the current review, and also for any future arrangements, will be the existing commitments in the current Memorandum of Understanding and the Memorandum of Economic and Financial Policies (MEFP). In this context we note that the commitments outlined by the authorities differ from existing programme commitments in a number of areas. In such cases, we will have to assess during the review whether measures which are not accepted by the authorities are replaced with measures of equal or better quality in terms of achieving the objectives of the programme.

I would also again urge the Greek authorities to act swiftly to stabilise the payment culture and refrain from any unilateral action to the contrary.

With best regards,

[signed] Mario Draghi

is what they said. they will be watching greece like a hawk. the government has two choices, pay up or leave. either way they are screwed.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:22 pm

Lordo wrote:not quite.

Dear Jeroen,

My Staff has reviewed the list of measures which the Greek authorities submitted yesterday evening. Our initial impression is that the document covers a wide range of reform areas and in this sense, it is sufficiently comprehensive to be a valid starting point for a successful conclusion of the review. However, as we expected it was not possible for the authorities to elaborate on concrete proposals and commitments that can be assessed by the institutions in respect to growth, public finances and financial stability. Given the very limited time available, this is understandable.

I assume that it is clear that the basis for concluding the current review, and also for any future arrangements, will be the existing commitments in the current Memorandum of Understanding and the Memorandum of Economic and Financial Policies (MEFP). In this context we note that the commitments outlined by the authorities differ from existing programme commitments in a number of areas. In such cases, we will have to assess during the review whether measures which are not accepted by the authorities are replaced with measures of equal or better quality in terms of achieving the objectives of the programme.

I would also again urge the Greek authorities to act swiftly to stabilise the payment culture and refrain from any unilateral action to the contrary.

With best regards,

[signed] Mario Draghi

is what they said. they will be watching greece like a hawk. the government has two choices, pay up or leave. either way they are screwed.


They are always watching Greece. The whole of Europe is watching Greece. That is the point. :) Greece are at the forefront of reforms and Draghi's statement is only part of what was summarised (in my above post) and it seems you fail to comprehend what is being said in these diplomatic and face-saving reviews. :wink:
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