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Re: american activities

Postby Paphitis » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:13 pm

Lordo wrote:you need to take out the cloth out of your ears when you listen to what people say. accurate bombing by drones from 10,000 miles away you say. what are you stupid. here is an american soldier on record at the expense of his own future telling it how it is.


And you need to use your brain!

Yes drones are precise and very clinical. All the weapons are short range and laser guided by the drone itself to hit a moving target.
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Re: american activities

Postby Paphitis » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:16 pm

Lordo wrote:he said they killed the same man 7 times. if indeed it is true that he is killed that means they have killed 6 other people by mistake. accurate indeed.


Of course he did!

Usually, the drone operator would not know who is being killed.

Lordo wrote:he said he told his superiors that a child was killed and he was told it was a dog by the person who did not see the picture and to keep quiet or he will get into trouble. thousands of people are being killed by american soldiers and here you are defending murderers. the western nations are being as civilised as the romans were when they slaughtered the so called barbaric germanic people.


How did he know that?

Come on man. I didn't think you were that stupid! He saw the child that was killed did he all from a FLIR at 30000FT? :roll:

Lordo wrote:most clinical indeed. if you stood behind a man and fired a shotgun into his back you are also being clinical. so much for clinicality.


Well, if the man was Al Baghdadi, then you can't get more clinical than that, and I would happily pull the trigger.

A drone is usually tasked to take out a target. That target could be as simple as a vehicle travelling down a road. You can't see who is inside.
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Re: american activities

Postby DT. » Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:19 pm

Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think anyone supports those scum at IS or any of their subsidiaries. What I think is being highlighted here is the frequent hypocrisy of the west where civilians are killed en masse by "accident". I was reading about some kids that have managed to grow up hating blue skies because they knew those drones would appear out of nowhere, whereas cloudy skies meant they were safe. That's no way for kids to grow up (if they get to grow up) and it's unamerican, unbritish and unwesternly behavior to NOT criticize these actions and hold our democratic governments accountable for each and every innocent life they take. They need to constantly argue the merits of these actions to us and our representatives. Why are you guys making such an absolute argument for the west? It's an oxymoron to argue that there should be no argument over our motives in the democratic parts of this world.


You too have fallen for the propaganda.

When people hear about drones, they immediately think of that Arnold Schwarzenegger film where you have these robots killing en masse. A drone is a very precise instrument, designed to take out high value targets in a high risk environment or to assassinate certain individuals. Typical targets might be a vehicle travelling down a highway or road. Unless this vehicle is also carrying civilians, women or children or vears off into another vehicle carrying civilians, then there is NO chance of civilians being killed unless of course there is a case of mistaken identity. They wouldn't do it deliberately because there is no point besides being disgustingly inhuman and criminal.

Agents on the ground have been known to also provide false intelligence to wipe someone off the face because they had an argument over who owns what goats or something. I kid you not. Yes sometimes the intelligence is from Afghan, Pakistani, Iraqi or Syrian sources.

But of course, NOTHING is ever fail safe. Civilians will get killed unfortunately. All it takes is one mistake, one misplaced piece of intelligence or just one break down in a long chain.

Pilots on the other hand are required to identify their targets visually. If there is a marketplace or school next to that ISIL Communications and Command facility, then it is NOT bombed. Hence why places like Raqqa, Mosul etc are safe havens for them because the coalition will not bomb urban areas.

As for drones, these are the most clinical and surgical of all weapons used to take out that car carrying that high level terrorist leader from the Taliban or ISIS that they have had under surveillance for a period of time waiting for the right opportunity.


Paphiti, no reason to start each of your discussions with the assumption that the other person knows jack shit about anything that flies :wink:

I know exactly what a drone is and I doubt many people think drones are masses of army robots from an Arnie movie. Drones are a part of the 21st century vocabulary due to their constant use by commanders in chief in those grey areas when war mobilization has not been authorized but assassinations of choice targets can easily be executed.

Unfortunately the process fucks up on occasion..... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... -kill-1147

P.S I practically live in the U.S these days and the arguments that we have with my American mates are no where near as absolute as this. Unless the U.S. Public and Fox News have just decided to spin themselves a 180 degree turn and Americans are now falling for this "propaganda".
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Re: american activities

Postby Paphitis » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:31 am

DT. wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think anyone supports those scum at IS or any of their subsidiaries. What I think is being highlighted here is the frequent hypocrisy of the west where civilians are killed en masse by "accident". I was reading about some kids that have managed to grow up hating blue skies because they knew those drones would appear out of nowhere, whereas cloudy skies meant they were safe. That's no way for kids to grow up (if they get to grow up) and it's unamerican, unbritish and unwesternly behavior to NOT criticize these actions and hold our democratic governments accountable for each and every innocent life they take. They need to constantly argue the merits of these actions to us and our representatives. Why are you guys making such an absolute argument for the west? It's an oxymoron to argue that there should be no argument over our motives in the democratic parts of this world.


You too have fallen for the propaganda.

When people hear about drones, they immediately think of that Arnold Schwarzenegger film where you have these robots killing en masse. A drone is a very precise instrument, designed to take out high value targets in a high risk environment or to assassinate certain individuals. Typical targets might be a vehicle travelling down a highway or road. Unless this vehicle is also carrying civilians, women or children or vears off into another vehicle carrying civilians, then there is NO chance of civilians being killed unless of course there is a case of mistaken identity. They wouldn't do it deliberately because there is no point besides being disgustingly inhuman and criminal.

Agents on the ground have been known to also provide false intelligence to wipe someone off the face because they had an argument over who owns what goats or something. I kid you not. Yes sometimes the intelligence is from Afghan, Pakistani, Iraqi or Syrian sources.

But of course, NOTHING is ever fail safe. Civilians will get killed unfortunately. All it takes is one mistake, one misplaced piece of intelligence or just one break down in a long chain.

Pilots on the other hand are required to identify their targets visually. If there is a marketplace or school next to that ISIL Communications and Command facility, then it is NOT bombed. Hence why places like Raqqa, Mosul etc are safe havens for them because the coalition will not bomb urban areas.

As for drones, these are the most clinical and surgical of all weapons used to take out that car carrying that high level terrorist leader from the Taliban or ISIS that they have had under surveillance for a period of time waiting for the right opportunity.


Paphiti, no reason to start each of your discussions with the assumption that the other person knows jack shit about anything that flies :wink:

I know exactly what a drone is and I doubt many people think drones are masses of army robots from an Arnie movie. Drones are a part of the 21st century vocabulary due to their constant use by commanders in chief in those grey areas when war mobilization has not been authorized but assassinations of choice targets can easily be executed.

Unfortunately the process fucks up on occasion..... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... -kill-1147

P.S I practically live in the U.S these days and the arguments that we have with my American mates are no where near as absolute as this. Unless the U.S. Public and Fox News have just decided to spin themselves a 180 degree turn and Americans are now falling for this "propaganda".


Oh geez, DT. FOX News is one sided and very pro Republican. Everyone knows this.

When you watch this channel, you should expect nothing but spin. The channel is not where you go for anything even slightly resembling balanced opinion. It has its market though which is why its there and remember it's mostly about the advertising dollar.

And drones are used in theaters where normal ground and air operations are underway. They are a good weapon of choice for things such as assassinations, or for knocking out that "Safe House" when you don't want to risk a 100 million dollar jet and more importantly risk the pilot who flies it.
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Re: american activities

Postby DT. » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:07 am

Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think anyone supports those scum at IS or any of their subsidiaries. What I think is being highlighted here is the frequent hypocrisy of the west where civilians are killed en masse by "accident". I was reading about some kids that have managed to grow up hating blue skies because they knew those drones would appear out of nowhere, whereas cloudy skies meant they were safe. That's no way for kids to grow up (if they get to grow up) and it's unamerican, unbritish and unwesternly behavior to NOT criticize these actions and hold our democratic governments accountable for each and every innocent life they take. They need to constantly argue the merits of these actions to us and our representatives. Why are you guys making such an absolute argument for the west? It's an oxymoron to argue that there should be no argument over our motives in the democratic parts of this world.


You too have fallen for the propaganda.

When people hear about drones, they immediately think of that Arnold Schwarzenegger film where you have these robots killing en masse. A drone is a very precise instrument, designed to take out high value targets in a high risk environment or to assassinate certain individuals. Typical targets might be a vehicle travelling down a highway or road. Unless this vehicle is also carrying civilians, women or children or vears off into another vehicle carrying civilians, then there is NO chance of civilians being killed unless of course there is a case of mistaken identity. They wouldn't do it deliberately because there is no point besides being disgustingly inhuman and criminal.

Agents on the ground have been known to also provide false intelligence to wipe someone off the face because they had an argument over who owns what goats or something. I kid you not. Yes sometimes the intelligence is from Afghan, Pakistani, Iraqi or Syrian sources.

But of course, NOTHING is ever fail safe. Civilians will get killed unfortunately. All it takes is one mistake, one misplaced piece of intelligence or just one break down in a long chain.

Pilots on the other hand are required to identify their targets visually. If there is a marketplace or school next to that ISIL Communications and Command facility, then it is NOT bombed. Hence why places like Raqqa, Mosul etc are safe havens for them because the coalition will not bomb urban areas.

As for drones, these are the most clinical and surgical of all weapons used to take out that car carrying that high level terrorist leader from the Taliban or ISIS that they have had under surveillance for a period of time waiting for the right opportunity.


Paphiti, no reason to start each of your discussions with the assumption that the other person knows jack shit about anything that flies :wink:

I know exactly what a drone is and I doubt many people think drones are masses of army robots from an Arnie movie. Drones are a part of the 21st century vocabulary due to their constant use by commanders in chief in those grey areas when war mobilization has not been authorized but assassinations of choice targets can easily be executed.

Unfortunately the process fucks up on occasion..... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... -kill-1147

P.S I practically live in the U.S these days and the arguments that we have with my American mates are no where near as absolute as this. Unless the U.S. Public and Fox News have just decided to spin themselves a 180 degree turn and Americans are now falling for this "propaganda".


Oh geez, DT. FOX News is one sided and very pro Republican. Everyone knows this.

When you watch this channel, you should expect nothing but spin. The channel is not where you go for anything even slightly resembling balanced opinion. It has its market though which is why its there and remember it's mostly about the advertising dollar.

And drones are used in theaters where normal ground and air operations are underway. They are a good weapon of choice for things such as assassinations, or for knocking out that "Safe House" when you don't want to risk a 100 million dollar jet and more importantly risk the pilot who flies it.


I'm renaming you to Mr Paphitis "stating the obvious" Wally. We ALL know what FOx News is and does and more importantly who it caters for. Why do you think you need to describe it? You've completely missed the point because again you assume your debating counterpart is starting from zero when Its me thats trying to educate you on American culture.
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Re: american activities

Postby Paphitis » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:09 am

DT. wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
DT. wrote:I haven't read the whole thread but I don't think anyone supports those scum at IS or any of their subsidiaries. What I think is being highlighted here is the frequent hypocrisy of the west where civilians are killed en masse by "accident". I was reading about some kids that have managed to grow up hating blue skies because they knew those drones would appear out of nowhere, whereas cloudy skies meant they were safe. That's no way for kids to grow up (if they get to grow up) and it's unamerican, unbritish and unwesternly behavior to NOT criticize these actions and hold our democratic governments accountable for each and every innocent life they take. They need to constantly argue the merits of these actions to us and our representatives. Why are you guys making such an absolute argument for the west? It's an oxymoron to argue that there should be no argument over our motives in the democratic parts of this world.


You too have fallen for the propaganda.

When people hear about drones, they immediately think of that Arnold Schwarzenegger film where you have these robots killing en masse. A drone is a very precise instrument, designed to take out high value targets in a high risk environment or to assassinate certain individuals. Typical targets might be a vehicle travelling down a highway or road. Unless this vehicle is also carrying civilians, women or children or vears off into another vehicle carrying civilians, then there is NO chance of civilians being killed unless of course there is a case of mistaken identity. They wouldn't do it deliberately because there is no point besides being disgustingly inhuman and criminal.

Agents on the ground have been known to also provide false intelligence to wipe someone off the face because they had an argument over who owns what goats or something. I kid you not. Yes sometimes the intelligence is from Afghan, Pakistani, Iraqi or Syrian sources.

But of course, NOTHING is ever fail safe. Civilians will get killed unfortunately. All it takes is one mistake, one misplaced piece of intelligence or just one break down in a long chain.

Pilots on the other hand are required to identify their targets visually. If there is a marketplace or school next to that ISIL Communications and Command facility, then it is NOT bombed. Hence why places like Raqqa, Mosul etc are safe havens for them because the coalition will not bomb urban areas.

As for drones, these are the most clinical and surgical of all weapons used to take out that car carrying that high level terrorist leader from the Taliban or ISIS that they have had under surveillance for a period of time waiting for the right opportunity.


Paphiti, no reason to start each of your discussions with the assumption that the other person knows jack shit about anything that flies :wink:

I know exactly what a drone is and I doubt many people think drones are masses of army robots from an Arnie movie. Drones are a part of the 21st century vocabulary due to their constant use by commanders in chief in those grey areas when war mobilization has not been authorized but assassinations of choice targets can easily be executed.

Unfortunately the process fucks up on occasion..... http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014 ... -kill-1147

P.S I practically live in the U.S these days and the arguments that we have with my American mates are no where near as absolute as this. Unless the U.S. Public and Fox News have just decided to spin themselves a 180 degree turn and Americans are now falling for this "propaganda".


Oh geez, DT. FOX News is one sided and very pro Republican. Everyone knows this.

When you watch this channel, you should expect nothing but spin. The channel is not where you go for anything even slightly resembling balanced opinion. It has its market though which is why its there and remember it's mostly about the advertising dollar.

And drones are used in theaters where normal ground and air operations are underway. They are a good weapon of choice for things such as assassinations, or for knocking out that "Safe House" when you don't want to risk a 100 million dollar jet and more importantly risk the pilot who flies it.


I'm renaming you to Mr Paphitis "stating the obvious" Wally. We ALL know what FOx News is and does and more importantly who it caters for. Why do you think you need to describe it? You've completely missed the point because again you assume your debating counterpart is starting from zero when Its me thats trying to educate you on American culture.


You mentioned Fox News.

It's probably the worse outlet you could have picked in order to attempt to highlight a point. It just so happens that Fox is probably the worse of the American spin. There are other media outlets which do not have this blatant spin and are what you may consider quite mainstream with similar lines of reporting as other outlets in Asia or Europe.

It's like me picking one of those local Cypriot rags which are affiliated to AKEL or one of the other parties. In effect they are even worse than Fox News as far as spin goes because of their official affiliations.
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Re: american activities

Postby Lordo » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:46 am

there is no doubt that this policy is recruiting more fighters and worsening violence and widening the conflic than it is removing. you have to be real dumb not to see it.
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Re: american activities

Postby Paphitis » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:44 pm

Lordo wrote:there is no doubt that this policy is recruiting more fighters and worsening violence and widening the conflic than it is removing. you have to be real dumb not to see it.


That's not what there saying. With the victory in Tikrit, their recruitment has slowed.

But it matters not. However many there are, we just have to degrade their capability and kill them off before they kill to many more themselves and help their opponents to regain control of their respective sovereign boundaries.
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Re: american activities

Postby Lordo » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:31 pm

how stupid are you. for every one target they go for they kill a hundred innocent civilians. it was originally in afghanistan as alqaida. now you have them in pakistan and the middle east and north africa. and you are telling me they are being degraded. just because they lose a piece of territory does not mean they are degraded. they melt way into the population and will resurface again and again. have you not learned nothing from the last 20 years.
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Re: american activities

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:00 pm

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