Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Extending the issue, there might me a 4rth version of a Psychopath-suicider, the one who kills himself+kills others+destroys really precious material, in this case a multimillion state of the art aeroplane or the twin towers in NY .

[DT.]

So are most of us agreed that this German pilot was a terrorist?

No. Terrorism is politically motivated and there is no evidence that this was.

I see, so had the co-pilot been of middle eastern ethnicity having flown a planed with 150 into a mountain, no one would be saying this was a terrorist then?

[kurupetos]

Unlike popular belief, Germans are known for not being very organized. German airports are very badly organized and flights are always delayed.

I am not surprised that they let this psycho to fly.

[Paphitis]

So are most of us agreed that this German pilot was a terrorist?

No. Terrorism is politically motivated and there is no evidence that this was.

I see, so had the co-pilot been of middle eastern ethnicity having flown a planed with 150 into a mountain, no one would be saying this was a terrorist then?

No, you need to clearly link whoever did it with Fundamentalist Islamic Motivations or some other political movement. Ethnicity or Religion is not something you can rely on.

[Paphitis]

Unlike popular belief, Germans are known for not being very organized. German airports are very badly organized and flights are always delayed.

I am not surprised that they let this psycho to fly.

Germany relies on a system of slots and aircraft are deliberately delayed to help with FLOWS. Each aircraft is given a slot irrespective of scheduled times.

They are extremely well organised and efficient. Probably the best in Europe along with anything else they do considering 5 out of 8 of Europe's busiest Airports are German.

[Paphitis]

I have also experienced a suicide in my life. The individual was a PILOT, working for the same company, and I use to socialize with the person not frequently but on a few occasions per year where we would go to a Belgium Pub just for a couple of beers. I did not see it coming. No one did.

Yeah Kikapu mentioned the same thing. It looked rather strange to me that people who commit suicide might not exhibit any signs early enough, so i did a quick search over the net. The truth is the majority (75%) do exhibit clearly identifiable signs

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html

It should be noted that some people who die by suicide do not show any suicide warning signs.But about 75 percent of those who die by suicide do exhibit some suicide warning signs,

My point is that this particular incident could have been prevented, although I understand the difficulties in setting up rules in the aviation industry that might lead to false positives, stigma etc.

Very dangerous thinking and one which will easily destroy many already functioning processes within the industry.

You see, if someone suicides, invariably someone will come up with "but I heard him say he was down because his wife left him, took the kids with her, and left him with nothing".

Then, they will be sending everyone with Marital Problems to the quack because they will think he is going to neck himself or kill 150 passengers!

Eventually, most aircraft will end up grounded because all Pilots will need to see a shrink, and the entire global economy will collapse as everything will grind to a halt!

[Paphitis]

OK guys, this is well and truly heating up.

International Federation of Airline Pilots has issues the French Authorities and various Media Outlets with an official warning.

I am a member of this organisation and was actually on the Board of the Australian Branch for a period of time and I can tell you, they have a yearly running budget of about $10 million all on their own, and I don't think they are going to take all this nonsense.

The consensus seems to be as follows:
1) They believe the French Authorities have violated fundamental Crash Investigation Rules and prematurely made accusations against a pilot, and
2) There are concerns over the French Instigated media hype which they believe to be counterproductive.

My guess is that law suits will be flying left right and centre in order to make certain points that the International Federation of Airline Pilots does NOT agree or condone the types of debates which are currently circulating.

http://deredactie.be/polopoly_fs/1.2284 ... deling.pdf

All I can say is watch this space.

[Paphitis]

Here it is from the official IFALPA website!

http://www.ifalpa.org/downloads/Level1/ ... 20data.pdf

Basically people, the French Investigation team is in a lot of trouble, and it appears they have violated International law ICAO Annex 13.

Germanwings 4U9525 accident investigation: IFALPA strongly condemns
leaking of CVR data

MONTREAL, Canada – The International Federation of Air Line Pilots’ Associations (IFALPA) deplores
and condemns yesterday's leaking of certain elements of the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR)
of the Germanwings flight 4U9525.

Not only do these leaks contravene the internationally agreed principles of accident investigation
confidentiality set out in ICAO Annex 13, they are also a breach of trust to all those involved in the
investigation and to the families of the victims. Furthermore, leaks of this nature greatly harm flight
safety since they invite ill-informed speculation from the media and the general public and discourage
co-operation with investigators in future accidents.

IFALPA once again stresses that the sole purpose of a CVR is to aid investigators in determining
the factors leading to an accident and not to apportion blame or be used outside of its safety context.
CVR details should only be publicly released following a thorough and complete investigation
of the events that occurred, and not prematurely during the course of the field portion of the accident
investigation, underway for less than 48 hours.

Leaking premature, unanalyzed, and partial CVR recordings, which lack the context of the entire
body of factual investigative data, severely interferes with the investigative process, and can only
lead to early conclusions on what exactly occurred during the time leading up to the accident. Any
other use of CVR data is not only invalid, but is an unacceptable invasion of privacy best described
as a search for sensationalism and voyeurism of the worst kind.

It is vital for the investigating body to ensure all information under their control is properly handled
until the completion of the investigation.

In this early stage of the investigation, many critical questions remain to be answered, and IFALPA
stresses the need for an objective accident investigation process through the collection of all the
facts needed to draw an accurate analysis of events. Once again, IFALPA’s resources are at the disposal
of the Accident Investigation Agencies to achieve these aims.

All I can say is good luck to the French because they have lost all credibility!

IFALPA once again stresses that the sole purpose of a CVR is to aid investigators in determining
the factors leading to an accident and not to apportion blame or be used outside of its safety context.
CVR details should only be publicly released following a thorough and complete investigation
of the events that occurred, and not prematurely during the course of the field portion of the accident
investigation, underway for less than 48 hours.

Not only do these leaks contravene the internationally agreed principles of accident investigation
confidentiality set out in ICAO Annex 13, they are also a breach of trust to all those involved in the
investigation and to the families of the victims. Furthermore, leaks of this nature greatly harm flight
safety since they invite ill-informed speculation from the media and the general public and discourage
co-operation with investigators in future accidents.

And good luck to all the media outlets too. They might try and make an example of one of the major media outlets for trying to spin their bullshit!

I wonder who that will be - Reuters, News Online, Murdoch?

[supporttheunderdog]

I have had to deal occasionally with Sickness issues of Germans - it is actually the devil's own job getting any sort of concrete information out of a medical professional about what an employee may be suffering from - the sick-notes simply say the person is unfit to work - not why. Therefore even if they were handed a sick-note GermanWings would not have known whether or not the Co-Pilot was suffering from a minor temporary condition from which he would naturally recover and have no long term effects affecting his ability to work, or a serious condition which would raise the possibility he was possibly not ever going to be safe to fly as a pilot.

[Pyrpolizer]

I have also experienced a suicide in my life. The individual was a PILOT, working for the same company, and I use to socialize with the person not frequently but on a few occasions per year where we would go to a Belgium Pub just for a couple of beers. I did not see it coming. No one did.

Yeah Kikapu mentioned the same thing. It looked rather strange to me that people who commit suicide might not exhibit any signs early enough, so i did a quick search over the net. The truth is the majority (75%) do exhibit clearly identifiable signs

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-warning-signs.html

It should be noted that some people who die by suicide do not show any suicide warning signs.But about 75 percent of those who die by suicide do exhibit some suicide warning signs,

My point is that this particular incident could have been prevented, although I understand the difficulties in setting up rules in the aviation industry that might lead to false positives, stigma etc.

Very dangerous thinking and one which will easily destroy many already functioning processes within the industry.

You see, if someone suicides, invariably someone will come up with "but I heard him say he was down because his wife left him, took the kids with her, and left him with nothing".

Then, they will be sending everyone with Marital Problems to the quack because they will think he is going to neck himself or kill 150 passengers!

Eventually, most aircraft will end up grounded because all Pilots will need to see a shrink, and the entire global economy will collapse as everything will grind to a halt!

No thinking is not dangerous. Setting up rules is. Your scenario actually assumes the setting up of rules.
When I said could have been prevented I actually had in mind a more thorough investigation to his background, to the reasons he interrupted his training for a total of (6?) years, for the reasons he was dismissed from Arizona as "unfit to fly" etc.