Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

As for where people choose to live, how is that relevant to justifying colonialism or invasion? Please tell me. Respecting sovereignty and allowing free movement is not mutually excuse is it? Otherwise, what is the EU about?

Who said it is relevant to invasion or colonialism? It is very relevant to one of the core issues of Eoka's struggle be it that WE PREFER be with our poor real mother (Greece) than with a rich step mother (England). You can't support the Eoka struggle and the ideals behind it, and the very next day go become a UK citizen. You can't one day tell you better be in poverty together with Greece and the very next day emigrate to England to become rich. If you really hated the British and their colonialpractices your would never want to be a f*king British yourself and inherit that to your children.

It's been 50 years that the British left and there is not a single tiny town or village in Cyprus that doesn't look "British" to any 3rd party- tourist. Most of our shop signs and labels, most of our company names are in English. Looking to rent a house? Just look for english text "FOR RENT" or TO BE LET...

I think you are mixing up supporting anti-colonialism and freedom fighting for sovereignty (which is what EOKA did and many other fellow anti-colonial 'subjects') with peace-time reconciliations - maybe to make some point? Lost on me.

The British are welcome back to Cyprus - as visitors and not as colonial masters. I'm sure one day the Turks will be welcome as visitors (with permits etc) and not as invaders. Are you now going to leave Cyprus because the British are back?

Personally, my family never left Cyprus nor Greece. Britain didn't become another place to call 'home' for economic reasons but for safety reasons (oh, and I don't mean safety from Turks - my dad stayed and fought when Turks bombed us in 1964). But, this is neither a good time nor a good place to continue personal matters.

[Paphitis]

The commencement of the struggle to free Cyprus from British rule was not only justified but necessary.
I remember the day very clearly, although barely 9 years old I couldn't wait to join the struggle.

Cyprus had every right to demand the end of British rule, we had every right to be given the unenviable right to chart our own destiny.

Turkish occupation of our northern parts will eventually come to an end, many occupiers have come and gone, Turkey will too.

It is not the struggle I have any problem with, but the means used....terrorism .... I think that almost certainly by the later middle 1960's, under the post 63 Labour Government, Cyprus would have been granted independence, and possibly before if big Mak had played his cards right in the late 1950's, and then probably on better terms.

As I mentioned to you earlier, the British created EOKA. For the Cypriots these were no terrorists. Their leader at one point was a British Secret Agent in Greece, working for the UK and furthering British interests. He had received British funding, and had even received specialist training from the CIA.

But no one can deny, that above this, the leader was a career Officer of the Hellenic Army, had fought for Greece in WW2 and after this was a major figurehead in one of 2 of Greece's most prominent Resistance Groups fighting the Nazis whilst Greece was under occupation. He was very well known to Britain's Foreign Office, was feeding the British with intelligence about the NAZIS in Greece so that the British can plan and coordinate some of their sabateur operations in Greece. and he helped the British (and Americans) with providing them with intelligence against Greece's other leftist Resistance Groups.

After WW2, the British and Americans helped his mob from preventing the Communists (backed by USSR and Tito) from gaining a stranglehold on Greece. A war that cost the lives of 1 million Greeks.

He was no terrorist then.

He had proven his loyalty to both Greece and Cyprus.

There is only so much that can be done. Cypriot teenagers were being terrorized for flying the Greek Flag or singing the Greek National Anthem in public. There is footage of British soldiers slapping little girls around, and dragging them like rag dolls. So who were the terrorists?

Greek Cypriots were living in Apartheid. There were Muslims and Non Muslims. Britain tried to extinguish every mention of the word Greek in Cyprus.

The curfews, and the beatings. The denial for self determination. The Greek Cypriots never believed Britain was going to keep its promises. So, Grivas forms EOKA with about 300 other Guerrillas. Yes that is right, Britain was defeated by a mere 300, and the reason why they were defeated was because behind the 300 stood another 500,000 Greek Cypriots - peasants, labourers, farmers, business owners, teachers, priests. monks, children at High Schools and even Primary Schools.

[Paphitis]

There is never a natural disposition for Cypriots to fight the British. Firstly, your civilization was initially created by OUR ancestors at a time when the Brits were still swinging from one tree to another.

Secondly, Cypriots had fought side by side with British, Greek, American and even Australian Soldiers in WW1 and WW2.

The British were always considered by Cypriots to be a quite uniquely polite people. Years before the troubles, Cypriot Children would gather around British Military convoys because they knew the soldiers might hand out chocolates and sweets.

In the end STUD, the British created EOKA. Britain sought no constructive dialogue with either Makarios or Grivas.

If Britain played its cards right, then EOKA would not exist, and I am sure the Cypriots could have waited a few more years but after one broken promise after another, and a toughening of Britain's rhetoric, Makarios and Grivas had no choice and the people of Cyprus did not believe they could trust the British.

End of story.

[GreekIslandGirl]

It is not the struggle I have any problem with, but the means used....terrorism ....

Did EOKA terrorize anyone on British soil?

Did EOKA bomb London buses, tube-stations, pubs, shopping centres or hack to death people on London streets? Did the average English person even have any awareness of Britain's colonial dirty-work back in the 1950s?

- I think most Brits were blissfully ignorant of these anti-colonial fights for freedom ...

[Sotos]

Only a Terrorist Colonialist would call native Freedom Fighters who fight against foreign occupation as "terrorists". In the same vein all those who fought against Nazi occupation, killing German Nazis and those who collaborated with them must also be "terrorists" I am sure that this is how the Nazis called them. But what Nazis, Colonialists and other similar scum believe is clearly NOT the truth.

[Pyrpolizer]

I think you are mixing up supporting anti-colonialism and freedom fighting for sovereignty (which is what EOKA did and many other fellow anti-colonial 'subjects') with peace-time reconciliations - maybe to make some point? Lost on me.

The British are welcome back to Cyprus - as visitors and not as colonial masters. I'm sure one day the Turks will be welcome as visitors (with permits etc) and not as invaders. Are you now going to leave Cyprus because the British are back?

Personally, my family never left Cyprus nor Greece. Britain didn't become another place to call 'home' for economic reasons but for safety reasons (oh, and I don't mean safety from Turks - my dad stayed and fought when Turks bombed us in 1964). But, this is neither a good time nor a good place to continue personal matters.

Eoka did not fight for sovereignty it fought for union with Greece. The GCs' claim for sovereignty brought over to the UN by Greece was actually rejected because no majority of any group can claim Sovereignty and use that right to do whatever it likes, be it unite with Greece.
And what exactly was the kind of freedom they fought for? The British had set a local government using the same standards as in their own country. There was no discrimination against the Cypriots, they were not taxed differently. The Cypriots could go live in the UK and have exactly the same rights as every other UK citizen.
The fact that half the Cypriots are today living in the UK, proves that they themselves never really beleived their "freedom" worth more than the "freedom" they would have by remaining British subjects.

Secondly, like I said before, the Eokas knew that uniting with Greece would mean becoming poor. And they used the sentimental argument "WE PREFER be with our poor real mother (Greece) than with a rich step mother (England)". Notice the psychic effect of the "mother figure"
How many of the Cypriots really bought that argument shows from the relatively huge numbers of those who emigrated to England over the years compared to those who emigrated to Greece.
Perhaps you might want to learn how many Cypriots refused to change their British passports and IDs after independence?

In a nutshell you fight for freedom to get something better. Not to get something worse (be it unite with Greece, or get that shitty 1960 constitution). The mere fact that Eoka created a whole cast of bravados who brought us to today's situation is enough for me to doubt all about it.

[GreekIslandGirl]

And they used the sentimental argument "WE PREFER be with our poor real mother (Greece) than with a rich step mother (England)". Notice the psychic effect of the "mother figure"
How many of the Cypriots really bought that argument shows from the relatively huge numbers of those who emigrated to England over the years compared to those who emigrated to Greece.

I think you are taking the motto too literally. If it was union with Greece on the cards, then no moves or migrations to Greece would have been necessary to feel that one was 'in' Greece or 'be' part of Greece - if enosis had occurred. But it didn't. So that motto no longer applied once pseudo-independence was established, right?

And the reason so many moved to Britain was maybe precisely because Cyprus never got its union with Greece. Estrangement continued! Maybe the enslavement of Cypriots was intended to continue in the bribes for better jobs/pay in helping out the wealthy Brits in the UK. They did the same to all the colonies - offered places in the UK for natives to get away from the mess the Brits left behind during 'de-colonization'

What did Cypriot migrants have to stay in Cyprus for? Cyprus was not given full freedom. Our government was moribund because of the Turkish blackmails. Turkey was threatening constantly with invasions etc etc. In other words - Britain did not leave Cyprus in peace. Just as they did not leave Greece in peace after WWII.

And you know, Pyro, not that this applied in our case, but it takes a lot of courage to move away, strange-lands, with the intention to work hard make money and return to help your folks back in the homeland - which is what most Cypriots (though not all) intended/intend to do. Of course, there was a 'familiarity' with British culture and language which helped many choose English-speaking worlds to move to.

If Cyprus had union with Greece, we still would have had freedom to move to the UK or USA or Australia or wherever we chose. Greeks in Greece do it too and the reverse happens all over the world - free movement! That's why I said to you not to mix up the struggle against colonialism and the efforts to survive afterwards.

[Lordo]

It is not the struggle I have any problem with, but the means used....terrorism ....

Did EOKA terrorize anyone on British soil?

Did EOKA bomb London buses, tube-stations, pubs, shopping centres or hack to death people on London streets? Did the average English person even have any awareness of Britain's colonial dirty-work back in the 1950s?

- I think most Brits were blissfully ignorant of these anti-colonial fights for freedom ...

was cyprus not british soil at the time, or did i dream that.

[miltiades]

It is not the struggle I have any problem with, but the means used....terrorism ....

Did EOKA terrorize anyone on British soil?

Did EOKA bomb London buses, tube-stations, pubs, shopping centres or hack to death people on London streets? Did the average English person even have any awareness of Britain's colonial dirty-work back in the 1950s?

- I think most Brits were blissfully ignorant of these anti-colonial fights for freedom ...

was cyprus not british soil at the time, or did i dream that.

No it was not you stupid ignorant idiot. It was Cypriot soil occupied by Britain just as the northern parts are Cypriot soil occupied by tergggy .

[Lordo]

oh i see you are not using international law, you are applying natural law. thats easy, you greeks bugger off to greece and the leave the island to the cheekykittens and the pygmy elephants.

hang on a minute, perhaps the old fool does have a claim after all on account of his pygmyesc looks.

go on bugger off the rest of you.