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Devided forever .

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: Devided forever .

Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:31 am

Mustiejodu wrote:In the time that I have been on this forum and had discussions or more to the point heated disagreements . I have come to a conclusion that no one actually agrees with anything . This forum really has not helped us formulate any solution but just to vent our anger and arguments . Just read through all the topics and you will notice that GCS don't even acknowledge TCs equall to themselves and continually put them down . TCs on this forum constantly are trying to justify their existence and to be honest are being pushed into a identity crises . Your damned if you claim to be a turkish Cypriot because the GCS really don't accept you as a cypriot but just smile in your face and act that we are all cypriots .your damned if you claim to be a turk because the greeks hate you with a passion . We are so devided in our opinions and beliefs that we can never find a solution that will solve this so called cyprus problem . Some people believe the cyprus problem was solved in 1974 and some people believe that was the cause of the cyprus problem . Which ever way you believe you can at least agree that we have not been at war with each orther for the past 40 years . Why do you think we have not had a full blown war with each other and there is turkish armed forces based in cyprus ? Have we had any masacres since 1974 ? Have we had any villages being burned or women being raped ? Since 1974 . What do you think has stopped us from committing these attrocities to each other ? Do you think tc s and GCS TRUELY have forgiven each other or is there any animosity still amongst a lot of people . What do think ? Your thoughts most welcome .

We don’t accept you because your community’s intention is not to accommodate itself as “citizens of the Republic” but rather as “overlords” of some political Turkish-entity within Cyprus, that we flatly reject.

We are also well aware that your community does not have the military power, financial power, or political influence to be worthy of an entity within Cyprus so it’s all a Turkish mockery.

You are equal citizens under the Republic but renegades outside of it.

To be worthy of a portion of Cyprus, Turkey must STEP ASIDE and let your community fight for it on your own against the Republic’s National Guard and if you win good for you but if not… adios!

So you need to prove yourselves worthy of an independent portion of territory because there’s no such thing as free lunch! :wink:
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:41 pm

Responding to the arguments of Kypreoi:
Right or wrong, paradox or not, Democratic or not, we have already agreed to political equality of the Federal states, one of which would be almost totally governed by the Kibrislis + whatever number of settlers they will load on our expense. That's the sad reality. You don't need to worry about the "equality" thing. How "equal" they will be, will show up in practice, mainly in how equally responsible for CYPRUS they will be.
We have no other option but to risk it and just hope for the best. All we can expect and demand is they will not load us Turkey as guarantor to enforce whatever illegal apartheid a specific cast of them -not all of them (be it their Denktashes-Eroglus-TMT thugs) may have in mind.
If everything works then after that we will be "equal" same way Cyprus is equal-imish in the EU.
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Mustiejodu » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:54 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Mustiejodu wrote:In the time that I have been on this forum and had discussions or more to the point heated disagreements . I have come to a conclusion that no one actually agrees with anything . This forum really has not helped us formulate any solution but just to vent our anger and arguments . Just read through all the topics and you will notice that GCS don't even acknowledge TCs equall to themselves and continually put them down . TCs on this forum constantly are trying to justify their existence and to be honest are being pushed into a identity crises . Your damned if you claim to be a turkish Cypriot because the GCS really don't accept you as a cypriot but just smile in your face and act that we are all cypriots .your damned if you claim to be a turk because the greeks hate you with a passion . We are so devided in our opinions and beliefs that we can never find a solution that will solve this so called cyprus problem . Some people believe the cyprus problem was solved in 1974 and some people believe that was the cause of the cyprus problem . Which ever way you believe you can at least agree that we have not been at war with each orther for the past 40 years . Why do you think we have not had a full blown war with each other and there is turkish armed forces based in cyprus ? Have we had any masacres since 1974 ? Have we had any villages being burned or women being raped ? Since 1974 . What do you think has stopped us from committing these attrocities to each other ? Do you think tc s and GCS TRUELY have forgiven each other or is there any animosity still amongst a lot of people . What do think ? Your thoughts most welcome .


I must agree with you 100% . What I wrote are observation of what I have seen on this forum not what I believe can be achievable . You are correct that when people face each other barriers can be broken . I have experienced this and can say it works but sadly so many people won't make that move . It's a fear factor and peer pressure . kurupatez got me wrong . He is too busy trying to analyze me rather than looking around him and seeing the problem . To solve a problem you have to see the problem but most cypriots are too busy slagging each other off and blaming each other


1)Yes unfortunately this is the nature of the forum. To vent out anger. Nothing constructive other than FINALLY understanding you have common humans in front of you to talk with, be it Kypreoi or Kibrislis.

2)The same thing happens in cemeteries. Eternal peace. This is no solution. LIVING people need to face and solve problems and disputes.It even happens within families. This will be the challenge in case the Cy problem gets solved.

3)The majority have not forgiven especially if they suffered personally. You will be surprised how much time they need to forgive after they meet personally. Half an hour the maximum. It's human nature.I beleive in case of solution everything will be forgotten within months.Assuming of course the solution works.
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Mustiejodu » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:02 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...Mustie, i think you are satisfied with dividing people into two categories, "Greeks", and "Turks". But, for many of us, Greek and Turkish, we consider the value in representing ourselves, more precisely, as Individuals, and as Persons. Thus there is a lot to be said for defending Individual Rights, and the notion of Freedom. You i suggest, regard your identity as a Person, in a manner where it is your only choice, as though it is not possible to have both Freedom (as Human Beings) and Liberty, (to live a daily life as a Person within their own community). I suggest that you are acting as an apologist for the status quo, secretly, i think you hope that things will stay the way they are because it suits you personally.

Cyprus exists, so too Cypriots. If you are willing to deceive yourself, it is because you are no better than the "Greek", as a "Turk" you have as an adversary. If you are a Cypriot, you know that the debate is flawed, that it is both hijacked by "Greeks", and occupied by "Turks" (not one, or the other). And it leaves the rest of us, those who believe in Universal Principals, without a voice that can be heard while they hold the Agenda.

...if you are not a "Turk", but a Cypriot of Turkish origin, you might consider that i am not a "Greek", but a Cypriot of Greek origin. In any case, it is not the Turkish Army which prevents "war", it is us, the "us" who are Cypriot, the other half if you will; neither is it your own unreasonable fear, and the mongering that goes with it, because by choosing "sides" you are aiding and abetting the crimes "they" make. We are better off as Cypriots, whether at another level of government there is representation for Persons as Cypriot Constituencies, or not; there is a Cypriot way, ask yourself instead, where is the Greek Constituency (if there is to be a Turkish Constituency)?

And if you want to twist your mind ask yourself, where is the Turkic Constituency in Turkey (if there is to be a Kurdish Constituency, (or Alevis) essentially for the same reasons)? Why not a BBF in Turkey, the Flag of Turkey which flies above the rest, and at another level of Government, Turkish Constituencies?


I don't agree with the point you made that the peace is because cypriots choose to be at peace . Let me ask you a simple question that if Japan had atomic weapons would America had dropped Hiroshima bombs ? The same as Russia bully's country's that don't have nuclear arms or America bullies countries that don't . The debate in the uk at present is the question of spending 100 billion on nuclear arms which I totally agree we should because it keeps us protected especially from Putin or other intending and unknown enemies . It safeguards the values that we want to continue to live with . The same goes for Turkey keeping its army in cyprus . It keeps the TCs safe . If they were not there what do you think would happen . Not over night but eventually ?
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Maximus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:26 pm

Mustiejodu wrote:
I don't agree with the point you made that the peace is because cypriots choose to be at peace . Let me ask you a simple question that if Japan had atomic weapons would America had dropped Hiroshima bombs ? The same as Russia bully's country's that don't have nuclear arms or America bullies countries that don't . The debate in the uk at present is the question of spending 100 billion on nuclear arms which I totally agree we should because it keeps us protected especially from Putin or other intending and unknown enemies . It safeguards the values that we want to continue to live with . The same goes for Turkey keeping its army in cyprus . It keeps the TCs safe . If they were not there what do you think would happen . Not over night but eventually ?


You are totally contradicting yourself with two opposite and unequal views. There is no consistency here.

Either, Putin can occupy the UK to keep Russians living in Britain safe or Cyprus can have nuclear weapons and beef up their arsenal to safegaurd the values that they want to live with from bully's and the occupying enemy.

Pick one.....
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:57 pm

Had Turkey not interfered and let nature take its course on Cyprus the CyProb would’ve been sorted decades ago and everyone would’ve settled in and getting on with life today.

That’s what happened in ALL countries of the world… one or more groups resisted the dominant group and conflict followed until a winner emerged.

It’s been proven that foreign powers cannot hand their group of choice territory on a plate… it just doesn’t work that way and the international community’s rejection of such an arrangement is a constant reminder that you must EARN it!

The CyProb is nothing but Turkey’s delay of the inevitable.
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Nikitas » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:59 pm

Pakistan has nuclear arms and it has not stopped Americans bitch slapping them whenever they feel like it. Having them and being able to deliver them are not the same thing.

As for the safety of the TCs and the Turkish army. It is arguable that the actions of the TCs render them vulnerable and not safe and therefore they need a foreign army to protect them. None of the other communities on the island have this distinction. In other words you are making yourselves more, not less, unpopular by insisting that this army is necessary for your safety. I know, this aint a popularity contest etc, but someday it may just turn out that way. History has funny surprises.
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:50 pm

Mustiejodu wrote:
I must agree with you 100% . What I wrote are observation of what I have seen on this forum not what I believe can be achievable . You are correct that when people face each other barriers can be broken . I have experienced this and can say it works but sadly so many people won't make that move . It's a fear factor and peer pressure . kurupatez got me wrong . He is too busy trying to analyze me rather than looking around him and seeing the problem . To solve a problem you have to see the problem but most cypriots are too busy slagging each other off and blaming each other


Consider the forum as the place where you can hear the worst things that will bitter you and make you feel sad from people of the other community be it Kibrisli or Kypreoi. Anonymity serves well the purpose of hurting other humans. No Cypriot would do that face to face we are humane enough i think. Consider the forum as a test place for learning the worst side of the other community.
I agree with you that Cypriots are not doing enough in real life to get the ball rolling regarding the cy problem...
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby Maximus » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:06 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Mustiejodu wrote:
I must agree with you 100% . What I wrote are observation of what I have seen on this forum not what I believe can be achievable . You are correct that when people face each other barriers can be broken . I have experienced this and can say it works but sadly so many people won't make that move . It's a fear factor and peer pressure . kurupatez got me wrong . He is too busy trying to analyze me rather than looking around him and seeing the problem . To solve a problem you have to see the problem but most cypriots are too busy slagging each other off and blaming each other


Consider the forum as the place where you can hear the worst things that will bitter you and make you feel sad from people of the other community be it Kibrisli or Kypreoi. Anonymity serves well the purpose of hurting other humans. No Cypriot would do that face to face we are humane enough i think. Consider the forum as a test place for learning the worst side of the other community.
I agree with you that Cypriots are not doing enough in real life to get the ball rolling regarding the cy problem...


Because both sides want completely different things and there was never any real unity to begin with. Ever. The "cy problem" is a farce and a remnant from colonial times and the TC's, are remnants from an Ottoman era.

Any TC that supports democracy and a free Cyprus is welcome though, but they are too few and far between.
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Re: Devided forever .

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:37 pm

Mustiejodu wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...Mustie, i think you are satisfied with dividing people into two categories, "Greeks", and "Turks". But, for many of us, Greek and Turkish, we consider the value in representing ourselves, more precisely, as Individuals, and as Persons. Thus there is a lot to be said for defending Individual Rights, and the notion of Freedom. You i suggest, regard your identity as a Person, in a manner where it is your only choice, as though it is not possible to have both Freedom (as Human Beings) and Liberty, (to live a daily life as a Person within their own community). I suggest that you are acting as an apologist for the status quo, secretly, i think you hope that things will stay the way they are because it suits you personally.

Cyprus exists, so too Cypriots. If you are willing to deceive yourself, it is because you are no better than the "Greek", as a "Turk" you have as an adversary. If you are a Cypriot, you know that the debate is flawed, that it is both hijacked by "Greeks", and occupied by "Turks" (not one, or the other). And it leaves the rest of us, those who believe in Universal Principals, without a voice that can be heard while they hold the Agenda.

...if you are not a "Turk", but a Cypriot of Turkish origin, you might consider that i am not a "Greek", but a Cypriot of Greek origin. In any case, it is not the Turkish Army which prevents "war", it is us, the "us" who are Cypriot, the other half if you will; neither is it your own unreasonable fear, and the mongering that goes with it, because by choosing "sides" you are aiding and abetting the crimes "they" make. We are better off as Cypriots, whether at another level of government there is representation for Persons as Cypriot Constituencies, or not; there is a Cypriot way, ask yourself instead, where is the Greek Constituency (if there is to be a Turkish Constituency)?

And if you want to twist your mind ask yourself, where is the Turkic Constituency in Turkey (if there is to be a Kurdish Constituency, (or Alevis) essentially for the same reasons)? Why not a BBF in Turkey, the Flag of Turkey which flies above the rest, and at another level of Government, Turkish Constituencies?


I don't agree with the point you made that the peace is because cypriots choose to be at peace . Let me ask you a simple question that if Japan had atomic weapons would America had dropped Hiroshima bombs ? The same as Russia bully's country's that don't have nuclear arms or America bullies countries that don't . The debate in the uk at present is the question of spending 100 billion on nuclear arms which I totally agree we should because it keeps us protected especially from Putin or other intending and unknown enemies . It safeguards the values that we want to continue to live with . The same goes for Turkey keeping its army in cyprus . It keeps the TCs safe . If they were not there what do you think would happen . Not over night but eventually ?


...you don't have to go very far, Mustie, just look at Turkey. What with the civil unrest, it is hard to rationalise the level of violence, isn't the Turkish Army in Turkey keeping "Turks" safe?
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