Cyprus-Forum.com

[iskismet]

You're right MicAtCyp, I made a mistake about the GCs killing the TCs at that particular time. You should note that I am willing to admit to making mistakes - are you?

You are probably right about my attitude - I can see things more clearly than yourself because I was brought up being taught not to hate. I can see both sides - something you are not able to do.

[Piratis]

I'm not talking about an endless occupation, just to eliminate the criminals who were undermining the RoCs democratic order and frightening the TC community in 1967-74 period.

You haven't realized yet that Turkey didn't come to Cyprus to restore the democratic order? What they wanted was an endless occupation, and they knew that they have a lot more chances to achieve this by occupying part of Cyprus.

I've watched those videos... they were bombing the military targets in those cities. There were outposts and armed soldier positions in every city. Especially on top of every big structure.

We are talking about 1974. Turks didn't have laser guided bombs. Even If we assume that they were trying to kill a guy with a machinegun on top of a building, by throwing bombs from an airplane you kill everybody in that square most of which are innocent. Soon you are going to tell me that it would be ok to throw nuclear bombs in our cities because we had some soldiers defending them!

[insan]

Keep exploiting the issues to make them fit your propaganda needs. You even don't know that in big cities people go shelters at the war times. And yes "just a guy with a machine gun" that's how they told you, your innocent combat story. Once again I urge you to go www.hellas.org and read the intervention timeline to understand how "enormous" was Turks and TCs losses against your innocent defenceless armed forces.




Your insistance on degrading TCs to a minority is more than enough to keep Turkey in Cyprus. No matter what other interests Turkey has in Cyprus.

[Piratis]

You even don't know that in big cities people go shelters at the war times.

What big cities? If you are referring to our towns you just said a big joke. In Cyprus almost all shelters were created just some years ago. In 1974 most people didn't even know what a shelter is.

And yes "just a guy with a machine gun" that's how they told you, your innocent combat story.

I forgot. You were aiming our Patriot and ICBM missiles that we had them installed on the roofs of our apartment blocks.

Your insistance on degrading TCs to a minority is more than enough to keep Turkey in Cyprus.

I take that as a threat. What you are saying is "either your money or your life" kind of threat. You are a minority, and your outrageous demand that you are not gives you no right to act in a criminal and illegal way.

[insan]

I take that as a threat. What you are saying is "either your money or your life" kind of threat. You are a minority, and your outrageous demand that you are not gives you no right to act in a criminal and illegal way.

Take it as how you wish... I don't care at all!

show me just a single line in 60s agreements and constitution that defines TC community as a minority, then I'll believe that TC community is a minority in Cyprus.

[iskismet]

Insan, I don't understand your argument.

TCs constitute 18% of the population. It is self evident they are a minority.

You'll need to explain to me what you mean - so that I can try to understand your point of view.

[insan]

Insan, I don't understand your argument.

TCs constitute 18% of the population. It is self evident they are a minority.

You'll need to explain to me what you mean - so that I can try to understand your point of view.

Dear iskismet,

TCs have been struggling for "political equality" for their political safe guard since British Rule. With 60s agreements and treaties they got the rigt to be one of the constituent community of RoC and instead of "political equality", they had been granted a veto power as a political safe guard. 60s RoC constitution defines only 3 small communities Maronites, Armenians and Latins as minorities of Cyprus.


The fact is that, TC community is not a minority group but as it was defined in 60s constitution; it is a constituent community. In my opinion instead of granting TC community a veto, it is better to grant them equal representation on legislative and judicial bodies as a political safe guard. Otherwise TCs will become a minority with a symbolic proportional representation on legislative and judicial bodies i.e nothing more than just a major opposition party regarding the legislature and judiciary.


Let's say a bill was introduced by a GC party and it is more in favour of GC community than TC community. Even if all the TC parliamanteries have opposed to it; the bill will pass... Then TCs will have to apply to the Supreme Court. Who knows how long it will take the court for the judgement.

And let's say TCs working on a Torism project but the central state laws don't allow it to materialize... TC parliamentaries introduced a new bill to ammend the law in order to materialize their Touristic project... Even if all the TC parliamentaries have voted in favour of the bill; they can be blocked by just half of the GC parliamenters.


Inequal political power sharing on legislative and judicial bodies will cause the new united Cyprus break down. Though majority of TCs don't accept inequal political representation on legislative and judicial bodies, anyhow...

[Piratis]

Yes, in the 1960 agreements we accepted that Turkish Cypriots will get a lot more than what minorities usually get. For example 30% of government jobs and 40% of the police force should be TCs. Why we accepted these things? No, it is not because studies have shown that TCs are the best government employees. It is because as usual, we are the weak and we don't have much choice in anything. This doesn't change the very simple and obvious fact, that Turkish Cypriots are a minority because they are 18% of the population.

In any case we signed those things and we can't change them. In 63 Makarios proposed some changes, that were rejected, so the agreements remain the same.

The problem with your approach is that you take the parts of those agreements that you like and you forget about the rest. Agreements don't work that way. Agreements go as a package. If you want to implement the 1960 agreements then I have no problem.

Unfortunately in your mind every next agreement should be better for you and worst for us. You came to the point to demand things that conflict with the most basic principles of Democracy.

And let's say TCs working on a Torism project...

Insan, we live in one country. Do you forget that? There is Limassol tourism there is Paphos tourism, there is Ayia Napa tourism. Should the people of Ayia Napa say that they demand 50% political rights because the people from Limassol are more and they will block their tourist projects??

What you are asking for is partition with an association of two separate regions. You can't say that you accept that TCs and GCs will live in one country, and then demand that TCs are independent from other Cypriots.

[Bananiot]

This debate is completely out dated. If ever there is a solution to our problem it will be based on full political equality. There is no other way and history is to blame for this, if you are looking for scapegoats. This history was shaped by the nationalists of both sides and the future cannot be built by simply erasing the past. This is life and this is politics. It is obvious that many GC find it strange for the two communities to be politically equal because of numerical imparity. Well, its high time we got used to this. Our government is probably trying to "trick" the TC's by offering individual equality (this is what Piratis moans about all day) but this is different from equality of the communities. Before Piratis indulges into his usual traitor rhetoric, let me tell him, that partition is knocking on our door because we dare not offer the TC community its political equality status. When we finally make the decisive step, all Cypriots would be defeating nationalism and Cyprus would be saved and liberated! So, perhaps the traitors are the pavement patriots who ignore history and aim for the sky, condemning our country to eternal partition. Perhaps ...

[insan]

Yes, in the 1960 agreements we accepted that Turkish Cypriots will get a lot more than what minorities usually get. For example 30% of government jobs and 40% of the police force should be TCs. Why we accepted these things? No, it is not because studies have shown that TCs are the best government employees. It is because as usual, we are the weak and we don't have much choice in anything.

This is totally a different issue... Disproportional participation on executive body was unfair. TC leadership rejected the constitutional ammnedment regarding this issue because there were total of 13 points of constitutional ammndment proposal which some of them serving a group of GC extremists Enosis dream. In 1967-71 period TC leadership came with a counter proposal to ammend the constitution in order to make it fair and satisfactory for GC community. The leadership of TCs had been accepted the proportional participation on executive body. Two communities leadership had agreed on all main issues other than granting TC community a local autonomy in Unitary state. TC leadership accepted the ammendment of those issues not because they were weak but to make 60s constutition fair and viable; nevertheless protecting their rights.

This doesn't change the very simple and obvious fact, that Turkish Cypriots are a minority because they are 18% of the population.

Keep dreaming... Some day you'll be woke up by a nightmare of two seperate states.

In any case we signed those things and we can't change them. In 63 Makarios proposed some changes, that were rejected, so the agreements remain the same.

That's what all you know or what they taught you....

The problem with your approach is that you take the parts of those agreements that you like and you forget about the rest. Agreements don't work that way. Agreements go as a package. If you want to implement the 1960 agreements then I have no problem.

You have huge problems, such as dreaming TCs as a minority....

Unfortunately in your mind every next agreement should be better for you and worst for us. You came to the point to demand things that conflict with the most basic principles of Democracy.

No in my mind there's an agreement which serves equally for both communities interests...

Insan, we live in one country. Do you forget that? There is Limassol tourism there is Paphos tourism, there is Ayia Napa tourism. Should the people of Ayia Napa say that they demand 50% political rights because the people from Limassol are more and they will block their tourist projects??

You started making nonesense again... Being members of two etchnicaly distinct communities and being the members of same community living in different towns have nothing related. Keep making nonesense.. your nightmare is soon...

What you are asking for is partition with an association of two separate regions. You can't say that you accept that TCs and GCs will live in one country, and then demand that TCs are independent from other Cypriots.

I wonder if TCs have been half of the Cyprus population would you support partition or equal power sharing in any form of United Cyprus. According to you both of them would lead us to partition... You have a very simple mind...