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Greece: well done!!

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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:28 pm

The Euro actually favors Germany France and a few other countries mainly those who export. Those countries have huge gains because of the Euro. At the very same time the rest of the countries have losses. You can't have a common currency union and NOT redistribute the gains to those who loose because of that.
We all loose because of the Euro, Cyprus included, because we have no tools to draft a monetary/fiscal policy, and imo we should all get out the soonest possible. (unless of course we start selling hydrocarbons in which case we will be among the gainers)

Greece entered the current loan agreement under terms that will NEVER allow her to breath or get out of it. It is a viscous circle that boosts recession, causes deep unemployment (30%+, 50% among the youth) , that needs more loans,causes more recession and so on. It will never end!
The solution is only one: Get back to Drahma. Surely there will be inflation. But inflation is not a bad thing under these circumstances.It is actually a must. Surely people will suffer at least for the first year. The value of their money will probably go down by an estimated 30%.
But hold on for a minute,is the value of the Euro what it used to be? Will it not loose more? It has lost 25% Vs the US $ in the last few years...
By returning to Drachma SPRING (ANOIXI) is coming for Greece. Next year's tourism will boost to twice as much..

One may wonder what are those crooks in the EU and IMF trying to do with all these terms attached to their loans? Simple:Suck the blood of whole countries for ever. Create conditions of monopoly and hegemony with absolutely no competition. Eventually buy huge portions of lands (preferably Greek islands) for peanuts through various investment trusts.

I have followed closely the events of the last few days. I will post some observations later
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:27 pm

Why all these negotiations in the last 5 months? Why all this delay until 30 June?
The Greek Governemt was simply planning the Grexit.They were not stupid. They knew they would never have one good day while staying in Euro under all those self regenerating recession and poverty terms.
Why until 30 June? Because of the attached legal strings to the existing agreement.They couldn't get out of it unilatterally.Therefore they only had 2 options a)either THEM kick them out of b)Force them out. With the current Banks closure, no ELA, etc and the forthcoming OXI we are at stage "B"
Has anyone noticed that the closed down ERT1 re-opened just one week ago? Have you noticed just yesterday they re-employed all 400 cleaners that were fired from the Ministry of Finance 2 years ago?

Let's have a look at the terms of those crooks at the EU and IMF. More cuts to salaries and pensions. 23%(!!) VAT on hotels (italy has 10%, Turkey 8%). 28% income tax on agriculturists paid in advance every year, either they produce or not! In other words KILL the last few things Greece could ever make some money.
At the same time Tsipras suggestion to replace those measures by taxing 12% those business that profit more that 1 million was considered by them "a recessionary move" and rejected on the spot!! Why? Because most of those are linked with their own business.

Furthermore they are shameless liars. The very next day after Tsipras said "they ask from us to do this and that" Jean-Claude Juncker said publicly "but...we never asked them to lower salaries and pensions!!"
Their second shameless lie came after the negotiations collapsed by forging their own "take it or leave it" ultimatum document changing the VAT rate for hotels from 23% down to 13% and then spreading it all over the Internet.

Imo after the OXI there will be a new deadlock, a new Bank asphyxia, while at the same time the Greek government will have all the legal excuses to Grexit.GOOD LUCK GREECE I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST.


NB.While return to Drachma is the only solution, unfortunately it will allow the huge unproductive State to continue, while at the same time serve the bad old habits of client -citizen-voter relation.
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:40 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:“… two separate polls conducted by Greek newspapers suggest that nearly 60 per cent of the public would vote Yes.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ggest.html


How can you trust a poll contacted LAST week? :wink:
Don't you understand this "news" is guided? :roll:
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Jerry » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:59 pm

Was closing the banks a not very cunning plan by the Greek government to show the people how bad life could become if they don't agree to the bail-out terms? Is Tsipras trying to save face by telling his countrymen to vote "No" but in reality giving them no option but to vote "Yes"?
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:09 pm

Jerry wrote:Was closing the banks a not very cunning plan by the Greek government to show the people how bad life could become if they don't agree to the bail-out terms? Is Tsipras trying to save face by telling his countrymen to vote "No" but in reality giving them no option but to vote "Yes"?


The closing of the Banks was forced from the ECB not from the Greek Government!They themselves refused liquidity to the Greek Banks due to the obvious forthcoming cash overdraw and export of deposits.
It was a cunning plan by THEM to scare the Greek people.
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Jerry » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Jerry wrote:Was closing the banks a not very cunning plan by the Greek government to show the people how bad life could become if they don't agree to the bail-out terms? Is Tsipras trying to save face by telling his countrymen to vote "No" but in reality giving them no option but to vote "Yes"?


The closing of the Banks was forced from the ECB not from the Greek Government!They themselves refused liquidity to the Greek Banks due to the obvious forthcoming cash overdraw and export of deposits.
It was a cunning plan by THEM to scare the Greek people.


But the Greek Government knew that loss of liquidity would follow their actions so in that respect they were responsible for the banks closure.
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:48 pm

Jerry wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Jerry wrote:Was closing the banks a not very cunning plan by the Greek government to show the people how bad life could become if they don't agree to the bail-out terms? Is Tsipras trying to save face by telling his countrymen to vote "No" but in reality giving them no option but to vote "Yes"?


The closing of the Banks was forced from the ECB not from the Greek Government!They themselves refused liquidity to the Greek Banks due to the obvious forthcoming cash overdraw and export of deposits.
It was a cunning plan by THEM to scare the Greek people.


But the Greek Government knew that loss of liquidity would follow their actions so in that respect they were responsible for the banks closure.


What actions?? Their refusal to sign an ultimatum within 48 hours? They already told them they are going to referendum asked for a few days extension, and asked that the ECB secures the Banks liquidity. They refused everything. That's what they always do. Refuse everything! They tied up Greece and other countries to the Euro, they control everyone's Banks through the ECB and they act at will.
Didn't the play the same game in Cyprus?
Even today Tsipras made a new proposal of 3 points, they rejected 2 out of 3 on the spot. How are you going to negotiate anything with these people? They have long term plans, and their plans is to destroy Greece, Spain, Portugal, then Italy and then whoever dares raise head.

Do you have any doubts after this that the only solution is return to Drachma?
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Jerry » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:28 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Jerry wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Jerry wrote:Was closing the banks a not very cunning plan by the Greek government to show the people how bad life could become if they don't agree to the bail-out terms? Is Tsipras trying to save face by telling his countrymen to vote "No" but in reality giving them no option but to vote "Yes"?


The closing of the Banks was forced from the ECB not from the Greek Government!They themselves refused liquidity to the Greek Banks due to the obvious forthcoming cash overdraw and export of deposits.
It was a cunning plan by THEM to scare the Greek people.


But the Greek Government knew that loss of liquidity would follow their actions so in that respect they were responsible for the banks closure.


What actions?? Their refusal to sign an ultimatum within 48 hours? They already told them they are going to referendum asked for a few days extension, and asked that the ECB secures the Banks liquidity. They refused everything. That's what they always do. Refuse everything! They tied up Greece and other countries to the Euro, they control everyone's Banks through the ECB and they act at will.
Didn't the play the same game in Cyprus?
Even today Tsipras made a new proposal of 3 points, they rejected 2 out of 3 on the spot. How are you going to negotiate anything with these people? They have long term plans, and their plans is to destroy Greece, Spain, Portugal, then Italy and then whoever dares raise head.

Do you have any doubts after this that the only solution is return to Drachma?


The actions of not repaying the debt due today. Tsipras is playing poker with the ECB, the ECB doesn't want to negotiate it wants Greece, rightly or wrongly, to do as its told.

Unless Drachma have already been printed (surely someone would have leaked that by now) or the old ones have been stashed away somewhere there is a practical problem with returning to the drachma even if it is a good idea.
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby Cap » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:40 pm

And Greece will outdo Cyprus in no time, outside of the Eurozone.


We'll talk again in 2 years time. :wink:
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Re: Greece: well done!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:43 pm

Jerry wrote:Unless Drachma have already been printed (surely someone would have leaked that by now) or the old ones have been stashed away somewhere there is a practical problem with returning to the drachma even if it is a good idea.


They don't have to print drachmas. They can carry on using the Euro, no matter what. There are many countries, for example, that use the American dollar and are not in the USA. It would be a similar scenario except this would be the first time a non-Euro-zone country would use the Euro - but more so, I don't believe they can be forced out of the Euro-zone nor does the ECB want to force them out of the euro-zone, but of course they will use this scaremongering to get a "Yes" vote out of frightened people. Disgusting tactics.
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