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O X I !!!

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Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:09 am

Nikitas wrote:Abroad the selection is based on inflexible rules, applied almost mechanically, with little room for personal bias. You prove you can do the job or go home. That simple.


I disagree. Money buys British jobs and money buys places at British universities! The old boy network was started by the British and I have seen NO signs it is not still applied today!

In fact, it is probably more prevalent today in Cameron's Britain!

In the past I've seen jobs being irrationally offered to fill a "disability" quota, a "black" quota and a "women" quota. I have seen favouritism of their own kind when the qualifications have been totally lacking in applicants - and employers have made no secret of the bias!

Basically, the British are as stupidly human as are the Greeks!

However, Greeks do strive for something more which I feel is only found in a very few in today's British culture. 'Greeks at home', in greater numbers, strive for something more and that's why they leave! 'Greeks abroad' strive for something more and that's why they work to go back home!

And Nikitas, remember you are one of those who became successful, worked hard, abroad, so that you could go back home.
Last edited by GreekIslandGirl on Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:09 am

I'm still trying to rationalize her comment about feeling "worthy" to move back to Greece. :lol:

Honestly, GIG must be taking some hard drugs or she has had a bit too much Retsina this morning!
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:13 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Abroad the selection is based on inflexible rules, applied almost mechanically, with little room for personal bias. You prove you can do the job or go home. That simple.


I disagree. Money buys British jobs and money buys places at British universities! The old boy network was started by the British and I have seen NO signs it is not still applied today!

In fact, it is probably more prevalent today in Cameron's Britain!

In the past I've seen jobs being irrationally offered to fill a "disability" quota, a "black" quota and a "women" quota. I have seen favouritism of their own kind when the qualifications have been totally lacking in applicants - and employers have made no secret of the bias!

Basically, the British are as stupidly human as are the Greeks!

However, Greeks do strive for something more which I feel is only found a very few in today's British culture. 'Greeks at home', in greater numbers, strive for something more and that's why they leave! 'Greeks abroad' strive for something more and that's why they work to go back home!

And Nikitas, remember you are one of those who became successful, worked hard, abroad, so that you could go back home.


Yes sometimes jobs are handed out based on who you know in America, UK, Australia, Gulf States and even China but there is a difference. You still have to be qualified and be able to do the job and not just a taxi driver.

There is a lot to be said about employing a known quantity. It avoids a lot of potential hassles. This is what generally occurs in my experiences. I have hired people because they were known and not necessarily the most experienced. It's the best character reference there is. But they would not be hired if they are unable to do the job or their quals were not in order as well as recency and currency. I was on a selection panel for over 12 months and was responsible for bringing in a lot of guys on 457 Visas too.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:56 am

Nikitas wrote: Among four candidates for a position, three with degrees and previous experience etc, the choice is a former taxi driver who did not finish high school. Why? Because he had the cynicism to offer the supervisor a percentage of his new, increased salary.


And I know of a British hairdresser who was given the managerial position of running a multi-million-spending department full of professionals that under ideal conditions should have gone to someone with a degree at least! I don't know what she promised the boss, but the department is in a mess right now ...

(OK - she may have gone on some *course* since getting the job, you know the types, after a week of chatting and *brainstorming" sessions someone is given a bottle of champagne as "most improved candidate" and off they go back to their desks and an increase in salary!)

Nikitas, it's fun comparing all that's rotten in society - we're both old enough to have seen a lot - but I have never seen anything described as occurring in Cyprus/Greece that doesn't have its counterpart in the UK (and doubtless, the world over!)
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:59 am

"Hellenism is a disease that afflicts people abroad, it is cured once they return to Greece"

The Greek consul to Alexandria speaking at a meeting of ranking members of the Greek community of Alexandria in the 1950s.

The other way is to have a business which has no contact, no dependency of any kind on the establishment. Which is how I did it. I feel for those that have to seek a public appointment, especially the highly qualified ones.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:07 am

GIG, i worked for a major US multinational for some years before setting up on my own. That is my claim to knowledge of modern management practices. And the system was ruthless in its focus on objective performance testing and assessment. Everyone was under constant assessment all the time. Greeks hearing this they call it "fascist", presumably being the chief's bed partner and thus getting the job is more "democratic".

My other experience is through my family members in Cyprus, who are mostly civil servants. They underwent constant assessment in their careers, none of them considered the process "fascist".

I have yet to see anything similar in major Greek companies of the civil service.

Yes, favoritism happens elsewhere too. Let's not forget how the Camrbidge five (the spies) got their jobs in the intelligence services in the UK. But once they were found out there was an open discussion of the process, books written, newspaper reports published and the faults noted.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:27 am

Yes, "open discussion". Agree with you - it can not be beaten!

Open discussion is no less found in Greece than it is in the UK.

Everywhere, some information is open for discussion and some (most?) is locked under secrecy for 30 or more years. What is different?

But, as far as Hellenism goes, a Latin expression best applies for me - Semper fidelis, dear Nikitas. :)
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Nikitas » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:53 am

Fidelis, yes, and we are concerned about the situation and that is why we are discussing it.

Paphitis phrase really encapsulates it: "Yes sometimes jobs are handed out based on who you know in America, UK, Australia, Gulf States and even China but there is a difference. You still have to be qualified and be able to do the job and not just a taxi driver."

And that is the difference between the Greek versions of "Rousfetti" and others. In other places you get the job by favoritism, but you got to DO IT. Here Rousfetti extends through your career and you can be a total schmuck but all is forgiven, and there is always the qualified flunky who is kept under the schmuck's thumb doing the job for shit pay and no prospects.

There are brilliant exceptions, invariably in the private sector, in companies like Cocomat, shipping companies, food technology and IT, hopefully in the armed forces too. These companies are now being penalised with a tax increase and the compulsory deposit of 100 per cent of tax, effectively doubling their taxation for two years.

Things need to change fast.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:43 pm

Nikitas wrote: Here Rousfetti extends through your career and you can be a total schmuck but all is forgiven, and there is always the qualified flunky who is kept under the schmuck's thumb doing the job for shit pay and no prospects.


I have seen a number of such cases - and maybe British university departments have more than their fair share - of people who were given jobs, simply because they are English (unqualified, other than 'enthusiastic') - and yes they have fumbled through them, not getting in anyone's way, signing on and off, being a "yes" man/woman and doing well in staying unobserved to be safe in their positions. It's a well know parody - don't get up anyone's *nose*. They have maintained their jobs above and beyond those who are more competent, more qualified but have the misfortune of being foreign (and I don't just mean Greek) or much better at the job and present competition to those higher up and so are kept under!

Again, there are NO examples of unique rotten practices. People are basically the same.
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Re: O X I !!!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:38 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Nikitas wrote: Here Rousfetti extends through your career and you can be a total schmuck but all is forgiven, and there is always the qualified flunky who is kept under the schmuck's thumb doing the job for shit pay and no prospects.


I have seen a number of such cases - and maybe British university departments have more than their fair share - of people who were given jobs, simply because they are English (unqualified, other than 'enthusiastic') - and yes they have fumbled through them, not getting in anyone's way, signing on and off, being a "yes" man/woman and doing well in staying unobserved to be safe in their positions. It's a well know parody - don't get up anyone's *nose*. They have maintained their jobs above and beyond those who are more competent, more qualified but have the misfortune of being foreign (and I don't just mean Greek) or much better at the job and present competition to those higher up and so are kept under!

Again, there are NO examples of unique rotten practices. People are basically the same.


And what, they don't have their periodical reviews.

I have seen many people get sacked. You either swim or you fall on your sword, especially in the private sector.
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