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no excuses left

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Re: no excuses left

Postby Lordo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:09 pm

Nikitas wrote:Now we are getting close to the hard stuff it is evident that preserving the meaning of Bizonality and Bicommunalit as the TCs and Turkey interpret them must, by necessity, involve a territorial settlement that will bolster these interpretations.

The reason is easy to understand. A territory that is on the population ratio level, 18 per cent TCs and 82 per cent all the other communities, allows a contiguous and integral TC region in which TCs can insist on derogations and accomplish that aim with manageable compensation levels. The more territory is claimed the more non TCs it will have to accomodate and then it will be harder to deviate from the three basic EU principles- the most important being freedom of establishment. It would be ironic to be in the EU and agree to the freedom of establishment of all EU citizens except Cypriots in the TC region.

It is doubtful if any treaty can override the rights of individuals if they wish to claim them in EU courts, even if the settlement is validated by a plebiscite, especially if the treaty legalises settlers. I for one would claim equal rights with settlers and go to court over it.

This is what Akinci is trying to achieve by stressing the bizonality and bicommunality aspects. But European are not as sumb as they look. They have dealt with such issues before.

As for the human rights part, to state it one more time, in Europe the human rights issues are the business of the council of Europe, not the EU. The Council of Europe includes non EU states. Yet the principles agreed in the Council of Europe and its Charter of Human Rights are incorporated in the EU since all its members are also members of the Council of Europe. There is no separate definition of human rights used by the EU.
The UK cannot abrogate its obligations under the European Human Rights convention. It can renegotiate some things in the EU or even leave the EU and that will not affect its membership of the Council of Europe.

either you are clueless or the conservatives are. and these boys are all from eaton. they said they would do it before the election and nobody said it cannot be done.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/10/conservatives-to-push-forward-on-manifesto-and-scrap-human-rights-act
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Re: no excuses left

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:52 pm

Lordo wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:
Lordo wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...defining what ''bicommunal'', and "bizonal'' means, is needed. And in any case the Republic will exist. If there exists a Turkish Constituency, to exist, within a State, a set of Cypriot Constituencies must exist.

...if "bi", implies "two", it does not imply "Greek/Turkish", but more to the point, it implies "Person/Individual", in the context of political geography, or political economics, we are Cypriots above all, regardless how we identify ourselves to "others", as the "us", you happen to be.

yep it means two states. North and south, nobody said terggish or greak.


not even north and south Lordo, one Cyprus, what is within will be represented with many components.

how do you describe the two constituent states. shall we say Nicogirne state and niconacasoldebaf state. suggest two names for these to constituent names. i would have though north and south is ideal geographical names which should not upset anybody.


...you seem convinced that the island will be torn in two, dear Lordo. i am not.

...you seem convinced that tearing the island in two is the only solution. i suggest to you that it is the only solution for "Greeks", and "Turks". The issue, on the other hand, is a solution for Cypriots, not "them".
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Re: no excuses left

Postby Lordo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:12 pm

rw it will bbf with bi zonal bi communal two equal states. the country is not being split into to two at all. 2 equal federal states single country single identity. are you suggesting that bbf is dividing the country, surely not.
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Re: no excuses left

Postby kurupetos » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:37 pm

Lordo wrote:rw it will bbf with bi zonal bi communal two equal states. the country is not being split into to two at all. 2 equal federal states single country single identity. are you suggesting that bbf is dividing the country, surely not.

OK, but your *rse is mine. :mrgreen:
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Re: no excuses left

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:14 am

Lordo wrote:rw it will bbf with bi zonal bi communal two equal states. the country is not being split into to two at all. 2 equal federal states single country single identity. are you suggesting that bbf is dividing the country, surely not.


...the way "you" describe it, it is never clear. It is like the Flag incident. It was never "illegal", but "forbidden", at least until the regime that is the occupier's proxy failed to the degree where flying it will get you killed perhaps, but, institutionally speaking, it is not, not allowed anymore.

...perhaps you agree with kurupetos, that the Flag of Cyprus, is a passing symbol that will soon fade for something "Greek" (and by no coincidence something "Turkish" as well), a rag as he says?

Never a Cyprus in the breadth of the thinking you demonstrate, never something superior to the idea of "2 equal federal states", nothing which identifies why Cypriots would and should choose to have a State, self representation as Individuals, this Freedom, above all else; that seems unimportant to you. But, the Liberty you seek, cannot be secured without the collective will of all Cypriots recognising an Ethnos that nears extinction and that is worth sustaining, Cypriot Constituencies (not a "Turkish" Constituency, and a "Greek" (read: all the others) Constituency); instead it appears that you and "you" seek some favour, a tribute, sheer Ignorance in that there is nothing in it the rest of Humanity can hold in high esteem and emulate), some kind of exclusivity that has no Grace , as bullies tend to want, and do.
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Re: no excuses left

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:50 am

i dont really think you have fully grasped what bbf is. my deescription of it is incoensequencial, the way un describes it is what is being discussed in the talks.

two federal states with equal political power. i dont think it is being designed in such a way that at some stage in the future the gcs can be majority in both states and do as they wish. if you see that as division then i am afraid you do not really understand the cyprus problem.

back to the drawing board for you.
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Re: no excuses left

Postby Get Real! » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:54 pm

Lordo wrote:i dont really think you have fully grasped what bbf is...

I don’t think anybody has… it’s like trying to imagine living in Narnia. Tough calling…
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Re: no excuses left

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:19 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Lordo wrote:i dont really think you have fully grasped what bbf is...

I don’t think anybody has… it’s like trying to imagine living in Narnia. Tough calling…

what exactly do you have a problem with. the number 2 or equality. just make sure you got paper gr and live the thinking to the clever ones.
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Re: no excuses left

Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:42 pm

Quote:
That federation would comprise a federal government with a single international personality, along with a Turkish Cypriot constituent state and a Greek Cypriot constituent state, which would be of equal status.


...count them, three governing bodies.

..if there is, an equality of status, it is between the federal government, and a confederal representation of the Cypriot Constituencies (if there was more than one "Constituency", as it is at best, presently). in any case, if "you"/you want a Turkish Constituency, it is not so difficult, but there must be the recognition that above our desire for Liberties, like Cypriot Constituencies, there are our responsibilities toward Universal Principals, the Freedom this represents when we are willing to defend each other without any other distinction or discrimination. No individual Constituency is equal to the federal government; read it.

...what is your problem? Why are you so unwilling to vote like a Human Being? Why must you vote, as a "Turk" (and exclusively so)? Why is it "the others" are "Greek"? When is it you vote as a Cypriot?
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Re: no excuses left

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:03 pm

we have not even begun crawling yet and you want us to run a hundred meter race. step at a time.
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