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SBAs and territory

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SBAs and territory

Postby Nikitas » Sat Jul 18, 2015 10:50 am

Just as we are warming to a BBF solution in comes the UK with an "offer" of SBA land to help the talks.

Why this, why now, is the obvious question. Right when the talks got to the territory and properties issue the British throw a spanner in the works.

Wait and see the reaction.

I said many times in this forum, the territory issue should contain a clause stating clearly that the SBA territory will revert to the south, that the TC regions should be stated in terms of perentage of the ISLAND, not of the RoC, precisely because there is this potential deal breaker.

All the villages in and around Dhekelia are GC while only one is mixed. Therefore the land can only be returned to the municipalities that are there already, there is no need to use it as a bait for either side in the talks.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Get Real! » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:18 pm

Nikitas wrote:Just as we are warming to a BBF solution...

We are? :? :lol:

I don’t know anyone here who is warming to anything… in fact they’re not even listening.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby kurupetos » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:39 pm

After the recent accident in the SBAs, I have the feeling the Brits cannot afford to keep the bases for much longer. :mrgreen:
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby umit07 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:23 am

Nikitas wrote:
All the villages in and around Dhekelia are GC while only one is mixed.


Quite a large chunk of Pergamos is in SBA territory, including my father's house.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Nikitas » Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:16 am

Xylotympou, Xylofagou, Ormidia, part of Aheritou, Vrysoulles area, are in there along with Pergamos and Pyla. Offering the base now in the midst of the talks will complicate things that should have been kept simple.

The TCs get a region, part of the island not the RoC, because the two are not the same in size, and sign an unequivocal statement that they relinquish all claims to the rest of the island. That automatically places the SBAs in the south and Britain would have to deal with the GC region for their fate. Simple stuff.

Now we are reverting to the Annan plan with its impossible to police demarcation line that looked like hanging spaghetti, thanks to our British allies.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:47 am

what exactly is wrong in giving it back to the the villages that owned the land originally. why must it all go to gcs.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Nikitas » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:37 pm

Because this BBF deal contains an element of partition, and that in turn imposes the need for a clear demarcation of territory and policing functions. Akinci said it when speaking to Juncker, that over and beyond the EU aquis there must be clear manifestation of the two BBs, Bizonality and Bicommunality. Logically these two mean separate territories inhabited mostly by unitary ethnic communities.

We have gone too far down that BB road to start having second thoughts now. The offer by the British does just that, introduces new elements and strains the BB aspect, because how are you going to deal with Pyla? Have another one of those "teats" in the map like Annan? How on earth can you police a demarcation line that looks like an ancient Greek meander drawn by a drunk? We need the baclava method here, straight unequivocal lines.

Sorry to be saying this, I did not choose BBF, nor the Annan plan, but that is what has been rammed down our throats and apparently is what the majority of Cypriots want, so might as well make it work and avoid future problems.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:15 pm

if its a straight line you want you can have that too, people will have to exchange their land if they wish not to return. but no need really, we can put a line phosphorus demarcation and the police can find their way round even in the dark. red for the terggish side and green blue for your side. you seem too concerned with police chases, has the cypriot community been criminalised so far that policing will not be easy.

in any case this is not new, this was offered in 2004 and you boys said no thanks.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Nikitas » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:00 pm

Forget police chases, look at the case where my sheep graze and at some point cross the line. Which line? A natural or man made feature marking the line is easier for all to know and respect and the straighter it is the easier it is, ie the old Nicosia to Famagusta road.

Or look at the task of embedding optic fiber lines across all those "teats" of the Annan maps.

We know from the past that small problems, ie a grazing offence, can become major problems helped along with some mutually fostered fanaticism.

In 2004 we were offered the very problem I am describing above, just look at that map and you will see it illustrated. There is no need to repeat that idiotic arrangement in whatever is being planned for us now.

As soon as the solution is this BBF thing then one of the basic principles is "good fences make good neighbors".

Again, not my ideal choice, but BBF seems to have been chosen by near enough everyone else.

To add a toofnote to the above- BBF will cater to the majority, it must also cover the minority of each community, those that might choose to live exclusively in one area and by choice want to limit their interacion with the "other" community to the very minimum. It is a legitimate choice and it must be catered to.

And finally to take a page from Soysal, that at some point in the future this partnership is deemed no longer workable and we decide to go our separate ways, it would be helpful then to have clear demarcation lines. Again, not my choice, but it has been stated by senior advisers to the TC leadership and must be considered seriously. The line then assumes a military significance and the situation goes into a whole different dimension.
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Re: SBAs and territory

Postby Lordo » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:01 pm

the borders are in your mind nikitas. you have free your mind from 60s thinking. why would it not be possible to have a fibre optic cable that happens to be nearby no matter who it belongs to and take from it that which you choose. if you have sheep why would you not be able to cross the line to the are of your choice so long as you have the permission of the owner or it is common land. when it comes to problems in the future there will be none because people have seen what it leads to and will not have the public support like 1963. it is far better to maximise the people who return to their property then to make them exchange. funny enough couple of tmt supporters mentioned the fact that the current line is not easy to defend. there is an old saying hirsiz hirsizlikdan gorkar. there will not be a next time. tc and gc will unite and kick the ass of anybody who wishes to start causing trouble. you will not divide this country, not now and not in the future.
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