Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

Another soldier has been killed today in Turkeys south east.

According to my estimates, this averages one death per day since the violence started about a month ago..

[Maximus]

if makarios did not accept the terms it was the tcs wish to go their own way. if gcs were civilised people they would have respected the wishes of the tcs and agree to division thereby avoiding all the killings since then. but no, the gcs were greedy and wanted the whole island to be enosised to greace. you see despite what you hear greed is not god, greed is bad.

Hey ottoman,

The ottoman empire collapsed and all ottoman subjects were relocated back to modern day Turkey.

This is your option, not demanding TAKSIM and further occupying or dividing other nations lands, like the empire still exists.

Going your own way IS going back to Turkey.

[Paphitis]

if makarios did not accept the terms it was the tcs wish to go their own way. if gcs were civilised people they would have respected the wishes of the tcs and agree to division thereby avoiding all the killings since then. but no, the gcs were greedy and wanted the whole island to be enosised to greace. you see despite what you hear greed is not god, greed is bad.

The TCs have no right to partition Cyprus and "go their own way" as you put it.

If that is the case, the the entire world would be so stuffed up because a lot of minorities and many countries would want to "go their own way".

Of course, they are free to "go their own way" back to Turkey if they are not happy in Cyprus.

[Lordo]

i like your democratic thinking. are you still wondering what caused the cyprus problem. wonder no more.

[Paphitis]

i like your democratic thinking. are you still wondering what caused the cyprus problem. wonder no more.

You should because I minority has no right to annex a portion of a Nation and you were a minority in every area.

With your logic, the Kurds can annex a third of what is know as the Republic of Turkey.

[erolz66]

Your argument about Greece forcing Makarios to accept the treaty is also on shaky ground. Greece, or any other country for that matter should not be interfering or forcing Makarios' hand to accept something that is unacceptable to the Cypriot People.

Yet the authors of the akritas plan, who were there at the time, clearly believe otherwise. They clearly believe that if the 60's agreements had been put to a plebiscite in 59 the people would have ratified them.

Did Greece blackmail Makarios? In all likelihood YES. They threatened Makarios as well, by telling him that he will be in this ON HIS OWN! Maybe Greece was also politically blackmailed. Either way, it's just not right and there are many legal arguments that can be presented against the Treaty in order to challenge its validity.

And if the legitimacy of those agreements had been challenged legally, we would not be in this mess. There is NO legal precedent anywhere in the world, in national law or international that allows one party to just 'declare' an agreement they signed was signed 'under duress' and allow them to unilaterally choose to ignore the provisions of that agreement.

[Paphitis]

Your argument about Greece forcing Makarios to accept the treaty is also on shaky ground. Greece, or any other country for that matter should not be interfering or forcing Makarios' hand to accept something that is unacceptable to the Cypriot People.

Yet the authors of the akritas plan, who were there at the time, clearly believe otherwise. They clearly believe that if the 60's agreements had been put to a plebiscite in 59 the people would have ratified them.

Did Greece blackmail Makarios? In all likelihood YES. They threatened Makarios as well, by telling him that he will be in this ON HIS OWN! Maybe Greece was also politically blackmailed. Either way, it's just not right and there are many legal arguments that can be presented against the Treaty in order to challenge its validity.

And if the legitimacy of those agreements had been challenged legally, we would not be in this mess. There is NO legal precedent anywhere in the world, in national law or international that allows one party to just 'declare' an agreement they signed was signed 'under duress' and allow them to unilaterally choose to ignore the provisions of that agreement.

Forget about Akritas Plan and Enosis. You're spanking a very dead donkey.

We are talking about the Treaty of Establishment which arguably could be deemed illegal and it was most certainly unworkable, and that led to issues down the line.

What was served to Cyprus in 1959 was a recipe for disaster.

Now, I do not argue that the GCs did not want ENOSIS. That was a sign of the time. But rather than coerce Makarios and all Cypriots down the road of destruction, the British could have tabled a better more workable and more equatable solution to the crisis, such as, the Establishment of Independent State (you can still call it the Republic of Cyprus), with complete equity across the board and proportional representation and a minimum quota for TCs to be set up at 20% as well as the TCs having their own local municipalities in their villages and towns.

And if that went to a vote, it would in all likelihood be supported by the GCs.

Furthermore, Makarios did challenge aspects of the treaty quite legally through the auspices of the roC Parliament with the 13 point plan, and that resulted in the TCs withdrawing from the Legislative Body, and the TMT terrorizing the TCs to withdraw into enclaves and then the shit hit the fan once again with Inter-communal Strife.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The photograph in this article of the mother, Fatma Sarpkaya, showing her pain and trying to hang on desperately to her dead son's coffin made me sob uncontrollably.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... -any-price

It's so sad, then, to hear once again of a woman participating in this male savagery of terrorizing innocent people.

[Paphitis]

The photograph in this article of the mother, Fatma Sarpkaya, showing her pain and trying to hang on desperately to her dead son's coffin made me sob uncontrollably.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/a ... -any-price

It's so sad, then, to hear once again of a woman participating in this male savagery of terrorizing innocent people.

It looks like Turkey will once again be at war with the Kurds.

Turkey has done a lot of damage to itself. It has become a well known fact now that Turkey has been bombing Kurdish Rebels in Syria.

This story is verified as factual.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33675760

It has been a very big discussion among the coalition allies and I know for a fact that Australian Defence Officials oppose Turkey's involvement in Syria and Iraq very strongly and have taken their protests to the Pentagon.

Turkey entered the war on the pretext that it was to be bombing DAESH interests but instead they have been hitting the Kurds and I can tell you that the Australian MoD is very angry about this because Australia has been arming them and maybe even training them (the Kurds).

It is also very likely that Australia has some secret assets among the Kurdish Rebels themselves.

[erolz66]

Forget about Akritas Plan and Enosis. You're spanking a very dead donkey.

You can forget it if you like but the fact remains that your assertion that the Cypriot people would not have ratified the 60's agreements if they had of been given the opportunity to vote in 59 is directly at odds with the view of those that wrote the Akritas plan.

What was served to Cyprus in 1959 was a recipe for disaster.

What was served in 59 was a RESULT of the desire to achieve total enosis of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots.

Now, I do not argue that the GCs did not want ENOSIS. That was a sign of the time. But rather than coerce Makarios and all Cypriots down the road of destruction, the British could have tabled a better more workable and more equatable solution to the crisis, such as, the Establishment of Independent State (you can still call it the Republic of Cyprus), with complete equity across the board and proportional representation and a minimum quota for TCs to be set up at 20% as well as the TCs having their own local municipalities in their villages and towns.

Throughout the 40's and 50's the British repeatedly made attempts to introduce and increase 'self rule' in Cyprus. However every such effort recognised that the TC community also had a right to some degree of effective voice. Every effort to introduce increasing 'self rule' under the British was rejected by the GC community because total ENOSIS required that the TC community have no effective voice in the most fundamental of decision that affected them. Independence had no such requirement and steadily increasing self rule under the British could have been a pre cursor to Independence and both communities working together for their common good.

The 60's agreements is what Cyprus got because NO ONE could trust the GC leadership to not simply agree to independence on day one and unilaterally declare enosis on day three and given what actually happened they were right to do so.

Furthermore, Makarios did challenge aspects of the treaty quite legally through the auspices of the roC Parliament with the 13 point plan, and that resulted in the TCs withdrawing from the Legislative Body, and the TMT terrorizing the TCs to withdraw into enclaves and then the shit hit the fan once again with Inter-communal Strife.

You really need to learn the history of your country. The 13 point plan was not 'presented to the RoC parliament'. It is just not true that TC fled their homes in the early 60's because TMT terrorising them. The fact is they overwhelmingly fled their homes as a result of GC illegal, para military violence against them or fear of it. That is the truth.