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Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:50 pm

Former deputy Prime-Minister when Erdoğan was Prime-Minister and believed to be a number of leading members of Erdoğan’s AKP party who are trying to create an opposition current to him within the party, has inter alia said the following about Erdoğan’s stated refusal to accept a Constitutional Court ruling:

"AYM kararları, isteyenin de, istemeyenin de kabul edeceği kararlardır."

TRANSLATION: Constitutional Court decisions are decisions that both those who want to and those who don’t want to will accept.

With reference to Erdoğan’s oath of allegiance to the constitution:

"Kendisi bu anayasaya göre Cumhurbaşkanı seçildi. 'Ben farklı bir Cumhurbaşkanı olacağım' deyip, Meclis'e farklı bir ant içmedi. Biz de o zaman ayakta alkışladık. O zaman ben bu anayasayı tanımıyorum demesi lazımdı."

TRANSLATION: He was elected President in accordance with this constitution. He did not say ‘I will be a different President,’ and swear a different oath to Parliament. We gave him a standing ovation at the time. He should have said that he did not recognise this constitution at that time.”


http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/siya ... eydin.html
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby erolz66 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:06 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Former deputy Prime-Minister when Erdoğan was Prime-Minister and believed to be a number of leading members of Erdoğan’s AKP party who are trying to create an opposition current to him within the party, has inter alia said the following about Erdoğan’s stated refusal to accept a Constitutional Court ruling:


That is encouraging. Thanks for the translations btw.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:30 pm

Prime-Minister Davutoğlu has recently said that the Constitutional Court ruling was correct as far as the infringement of Constitutional rights goes, but it is wrong to regard this as a final ruling in the case itself against the journalists Dündar and Erdem. This is perfectly true, but the Constitutional Court's reasoned decision is said to be ready for signing, and the contents of this decision will be of great importance. The penal court hearing the trial of the two journalists cannot go against anything the Constitutional Court (the highest court in the land) rules, and given that the latter has already spoken of breaches of the right to free expression and press freedom, it looks to me as though the trial against them is now a dead duck.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:45 pm

In another case before the Constitutional Court in which opposition party CHP’s application for the annulment of a law granting wider powers to the security service was rejected, President of the Constitutional Court Zühtü Arslan, Vice President Engin Yıldırım and judge Emin Kuz have written in a joint dissenting opinion including the following:

“İletişimin denetlenmesinin özellikle terörle mücadele ve demokratik düzenin korunması bakımından gerekli olduğu hususu izahtan varestedir. Ancak AİHM kararlarında da belirtildiği üzere, demokrasiyi korumak için başvurulan bu tedbirlerin kötüye kullanılması durumumda ‘polis devleti’ uygulaması haline geleceği ve bizzat korunmak istenen demokrasiyi yok edebilecek potansiyele sahip olduğu da bir gerçektir. Bu nedenle, iletişimin denetlenmesi tedbirinin kötüye kullanılması karşısında yeterli ve etkili güvencelerin sağlanması bir zorunluluktur.”

TRANSLATION: It is beyond dispute that the monitoring of communications is necessary especially with a view to combatting terror and protecting the democratic order. However, as has also been stated in ECHR rulings, in the event that these measures invoked to protect democracy are abused, it is a fact that they will assume the form of ‘police state’ practices and also have the potential to destroy the very democracy that it is wished to protect. It is consequently necessary for adequate and effective safeguards to be provided against the abuse of the communication monitoring measure.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby erolz66 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:51 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:In another case before the Constitutional Court in which opposition party CHP’s application for the annulment of a law granting wider powers to the security service was rejected, President of the Constitutional Court Zühtü Arslan, Vice President Engin Yıldırım and judge Emin Kuz have written in a joint dissenting opinion including the following:


Do you know how many judges made up the constitutional court for this judgement ? I could probably research the question and find the answer but thought you might just know already or be able to find it for me more easily than I can given your language skills and my lack of. Curious really as to what % those three are of the total.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:09 pm

It has 17 members, 10 of whom were appointed by Abdullah Gül when he was president. It is not a court I know much about, but I think all 17 preside over cases. The pro-Erdoğan press is blaming Abdullah Gül for using his influence to get the court to rule in favour of Dündar and Erdem. The three judges who spoke out against police state measures were all Gül appointees.

https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrk ... _Mahkemesi
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby erolz66 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:17 pm

Thanks Tim - I always find your comments on Turkey, informed and interesting.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby MR-from-NG » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:33 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
observer wrote:
As you rightly observe, the electorate did not give Erdoğan a mandate to change the constitution. He has not changed it.

If you were more specific about how you believe Erdoğan is "pulling the strings behind the scenes" I could consider it. I'd ask you to consider whether or not there is more than a little pulling of strings out of the public gaze in any political set up - the EU being a prime candidate for consideration.

I'd agree that all is not "hunky dory" in Turkey, but in Erdoğan's favour is a greater acknowledgement of Kurdish rights than at any other time in the Republic's history - not perfect but you have to carry the electorate with you - and the presence of ISIS next door with some terrorists most probably mixed in with the many genuine refugees now in Turkey. It's not the first time that Turkey has acted as a safe haven for Kurdish refugees. Remember Gulf War 1.


The latest outrage from Erdoğan is his public reaction to a decision by the Turkish Constitutional Court, the highest court in the land, with reference the ludicrous show trial against journalists Can Dündar and Erdem Gül:

"Anayasa Mahkemesi, bu şekilde bir karar vermiş olabilir. Vermiş olduğu karara sadece sessiz kalırım ama kabul etmek durumunda değilim. Verdiği karara da uymuyorum, saygı da duymuyorum"

[translation]

The Constitutional Court may have ruled along these lines. I will just remain silent about the ruling it has passed but I am not obliged to accept it. I neither comply with nor respect the ruling that it has passed.


http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/turk ... _oldu.html

If you understand anything at all about the constitutional order of the Republic of Turkey, you would realise that this is both an outrage and a serious threat to the rule of law in Turkey. According to his constitutional role, the president has no business commenting on a Constitutional Court decision in this manner and, given that on paper the separation of powers still exists and the judiciary is supposed to be independent (although everybody knows that this is no longer true), he cannot refuse to accept a ruling by the highest court in the land. If you cannot take off your rose-tinted glasses even now and see that Erdoğan is acting like a fascist dictator, then you are beyond hope!



Here is an open letter to the lunatic aka RTE from Can Dundar. Brilliantly written. It has sarcasm, it has humour and it's provocative. Erdogan should be feeling all sorts of emotions reading this. Angry?, hurt?, maybe embarrassed? But I don't know if he knows how to be embarrassed. The man has the skin of a donkey.
I looked for an English version of this but couldn't find one. Perhaps Tim Drayton can work his magic on this masterpiece. Oh yeah, while I've got the opportunity I'd like to thank you for all the translations you've been doing for the CF community, Tim. They are translated word for word and your Turkish is brilliant.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:02 am

Beni mahcup ettiniz efendim.

That aside, I did read that brilliant article, and yes, the title alone is fantastic. I don't really have time just now to work on it, I'm afraid.

Also, look at the following speech made by Erdoğan's former Deputy Prime-Minister Arınç in which he is even more outspoken than in his previous comments about the former's refusal to accept a Constitutional Court Ruling, even working in a 'Temel' joke (the Black Sea people are joked about in Turkey for supposedly being stupid) ending in the punch line: "Ben de seni tanımayirum" ['And I don't recognise you, either' in a mock Black Sea accent]. Given that Erdoğan is from the Black Sea, this is going very close to bone indeed.

http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/siya ... ezsin.html
Last edited by Tim Drayton on Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Erdogan's Megalomania Fuels Terrorism!

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:07 am

MR-from-NG wrote:Erdogan should be feeling all sorts of emotions reading this. Angry?, hurt?, maybe embarrassed? But I don't know if he knows how to be embarrassed. The man has the skin of a donkey.


I watched part of a clip showing Erdoğan making his statement in which he said he did not recognise the court's decision, and do you know what? I don't think he looked his old confident, cocky self at all.
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