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Hellenic Defence Industries

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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby kurupetos » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:44 pm

Paphitis wrote:I am aware of most of Greece's Defence Projects, at least those that are not secret, but it's time to ramp this entire industry up by signing deals to build F-35 Flighters in Greece, build submarines, frigates and Destroyers with the Israelis rather than buy off the shelf.

The German Submarines were are complete disaster, so I see no reason why Greece and Israel can't build their own Kockums Class.

I see potential for huge growth.

Indeed there's potential... with a patriotic government! :wink:

Now Greeks need to get rid of this loser Tsipras...

One month to go... :mrgreen:
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:42 am

the Greek inventor of Dome defense, which israel has in production..




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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Oceanside50 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:44 am

....that can make Greece a superpower in 48 hours...





and has built a spaceship and spoke with aliens in Ancient Greek

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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Nikitas » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:54 am

F35 is the one Americans are sharing with foreigners, the F22 they are keeping to themselves. That says a lot.

The ideal project would be the system that brings down the F35. A plane which many aerospace engineers describe as a tub.

Stealth technology is seen as the dog's whatnots these days, but those in the know say otherwise.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:16 pm

Nikitas wrote:F35 is the one Americans are sharing with foreigners, the F22 they are keeping to themselves. That says a lot.

The ideal project would be the system that brings down the F35. A plane which many aerospace engineers describe as a tub.

Stealth technology is seen as the dog's whatnots these days, but those in the know say otherwise.


Not entirely accurate!

The F-22 has a lot of Australian Technology, much of which is very sensitive and secret. Some of the systems for it were designed and are being manufactured in Adelaide. I have seen the facility.

As a result, the RAAF is earmarked for 24 F-22 aircraft which will be used for strategic attack. The idea is to be able to attack a country stealthily on the other side of the globe which they can already do with their F-18 Super Hornets. The obvious reason is for the benefit of North Korea or even possibly China. Australia has always had this capability going back to the F-111 now out of service and it is a Government Defence White paper strategic priority to maintain it.

However, there are still many problems with the F-22. The 100 F35s will be in service before the first F-22 arrives in Australia. Some will have arrester hooks for carrier landings which suggests that the Canbera Class will be upgraded in a few years to carry them.

The F-35 is state of the art and about a third of the price for each F22. The F22 is really not required for Greece. For Australia it is more relevant because of its defence ties with Japan and South Korea.

Because of the issues with the F-22, about 24 EA-18G Growlers have been delivered to the RAAF in the interim which is extremely badass stuff! Only 2 countries operate Growlers in the world, USA and Australia.

Just to put things into perspective, the USA will purchase about 1500 F-35 aircraft and only about 250 F-22 aircraft. Australia will get about 24 F-22s.

No other country has put their hand up for it. I believe it could be sold to certain countries but not all. The technology will probably not ever be sold to either Greece or Turkey because both countries are viewed as unstable and have close relations with Putin.

Greece certainly won't get it for as long as Tsipras is in power because he tried to negotiate a deal with Russia a few weeks ago. It's understandable that he would try to do that, but their would be security concerns no doubt.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby umit07 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:53 pm

I'm no expert on aircraft, but from all the reports I have read the F-35 seems to be a crappy version of the F-22 in multi-role form. It is still not completely ready for delivery and has turned out to be the most expensive defense project in history. The US will need to sell the aircraft in large quantities to have some chance in achieving economies of scale. An F-35 pilots helmet supposedly costs $400k USD FFS. Turkey and Italy have won contracts for the maintenance of European customers of the aircraft. The last I read, the US Senate will need to lift the export ban on the F-22 before Australia could acquire any.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:17 pm

umit07 wrote:I'm no expert on aircraft, but from all the reports I have read the F-35 seems to be a crappy version of the F-22 in multi-role form. It is still not completely ready for delivery and has turned out to be the most expensive defense project in history. The US will need to sell the aircraft in large quantities to have some chance in achieving economies of scale. An F-35 pilots helmet supposedly costs $400k USD FFS. Turkey and Italy have won contracts for the maintenance of European customers of the aircraft. The last I read, the US Senate will need to lift the export ban on the F-22 before Australia could acquire any.


The F-35s are ready. 2 are already in service with the RAAF and the last will be delivered in 2018.

As always, it's not unusual for some issues to be present with new technologies but most of the issues are software based with the Weapons Control Systems and so forth.

The F-35 is actually a multi-role fighter which will replace the F-16 and F-18. The Super Hornets will probably be in service for another 15 years. The F-22 is significantly a much dearer airframe with better Stealth and better weapon systems. It is at least 2 times dearer than the F-35 but it is not 2 times better than the F-35. Both aircraft are designed for different things. the F-22 for instance is air superiority but will more commonly be used to completely devastate a city, and its infrastructure as well as be able to fight its way out if necessary.

the F-35 will be the mainstay Air Superiority aircraft for most countries including the USA. Some 4000 have already been ordered by USA, allies and NATO. So the project will be cash positive I am pretty sure. Australia paid $190 million per aircraft but Australia is a stakeholder (Turkey is also a significant stakeholder in the project) in the project since they build various components. The export cost is actually about $100 million. The F22 is about double that.

The F-22 is earmarked to replace the EA-18G Growler aircraft for the RAAF. The are no restrictions on Australia as far as I know and some of the systems on it are Australian. Australia is already invested in both projects.

The media is full of a lot of nnonsense. The F-35 project has been significantly delayed due to issues, but it certainly is state of the art. It will be the best Fighter along with the Typhoon for quite some time. Yes the F-22 is better technically.
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:20 pm



Some parts might be made in China because they can manufacture on a massive scale and at a fraction of the cost.

However, China has no part to play on any of the Weapon Control Systems, ECM, Powerplant, Flight Controls, Radar, Avionics, HUD, Ejection Seats, or Stealth Technology.

They would be told to build panel number 511244a and ship to USA for assembly.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Get Real! » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:42 pm

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