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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:48 pm



USN and RAAF are the only ones to have these beautiful Growlers.

We know what the Chinese have and don't have, so don't believe a word of it. They are 30 years behind and can't even copy American or Australian cars, refrigerators, and washing machines yet. :lol:

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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby umit07 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:00 pm

Paphitis wrote:
umit07 wrote:I'm no expert on aircraft, but from all the reports I have read the F-35 seems to be a crappy version of the F-22 in multi-role form. It is still not completely ready for delivery and has turned out to be the most expensive defense project in history. The US will need to sell the aircraft in large quantities to have some chance in achieving economies of scale. An F-35 pilots helmet supposedly costs $400k USD FFS. Turkey and Italy have won contracts for the maintenance of European customers of the aircraft. The last I read, the US Senate will need to lift the export ban on the F-22 before Australia could acquire any.


The F-35s are ready. 2 are already in service with the RAAF and the last will be delivered in 2018.

As always, it's not unusual for some issues to be present with new technologies but most of the issues are software based with the Weapons Control Systems and so forth.

The F-35 is actually a multi-role fighter which will replace the F-16 and F-18. The Super Hornets will probably be in service for another 15 years. The F-22 is significantly a much dearer airframe with better Stealth and better weapon systems. It is at least 2 times dearer than the F-35 but it is not 2 times better than the F-35. Both aircraft are designed for different things. the F-22 for instance is air superiority but will more commonly be used to completely devastate a city, and its infrastructure as well as be able to fight its way out if necessary.

the F-35 will be the mainstay Air Superiority aircraft for most countries including the USA. Some 4000 have already been ordered by USA, allies and NATO. So the project will be cash positive I am pretty sure. Australia paid $190 million per aircraft but Australia is a stakeholder (Turkey is also a significant stakeholder in the project) in the project since they build various components. The export cost is actually about $100 million. The F22 is about double that.

The F-22 is earmarked to replace the EA-18G Growler aircraft for the RAAF. The are no restrictions on Australia as far as I know and some of the systems on it are Australian. Australia is already invested in both projects.

The media is full of a lot of nnonsense. The F-35 project has been significantly delayed due to issues, but it certainly is state of the art. It will be the best Fighter along with the Typhoon for quite some time. Yes the F-22 is better technically.


What do you think about this article;

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -cost.html
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:07 pm

Paphitis wrote:


USN and RAAF are the only ones to have these beautiful Growlers.

We know what the Chinese have and don't have, so don't believe a word of it. They are 30 years behind and can't even copy American or Australian cars, refrigerators, and washing machines yet. :lol:


chenese declare low trade figures and the west loses 7 trillion in share trading.
chinese have 200 trillion in reserves
americans are 200 trillion in debt

all the chinese have to do is pull their money out of usa and you are all furqued you stupid idot.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:12 pm

umit07 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
umit07 wrote:I'm no expert on aircraft, but from all the reports I have read the F-35 seems to be a crappy version of the F-22 in multi-role form. It is still not completely ready for delivery and has turned out to be the most expensive defense project in history. The US will need to sell the aircraft in large quantities to have some chance in achieving economies of scale. An F-35 pilots helmet supposedly costs $400k USD FFS. Turkey and Italy have won contracts for the maintenance of European customers of the aircraft. The last I read, the US Senate will need to lift the export ban on the F-22 before Australia could acquire any.


The F-35s are ready. 2 are already in service with the RAAF and the last will be delivered in 2018.

As always, it's not unusual for some issues to be present with new technologies but most of the issues are software based with the Weapons Control Systems and so forth.

The F-35 is actually a multi-role fighter which will replace the F-16 and F-18. The Super Hornets will probably be in service for another 15 years. The F-22 is significantly a much dearer airframe with better Stealth and better weapon systems. It is at least 2 times dearer than the F-35 but it is not 2 times better than the F-35. Both aircraft are designed for different things. the F-22 for instance is air superiority but will more commonly be used to completely devastate a city, and its infrastructure as well as be able to fight its way out if necessary.

the F-35 will be the mainstay Air Superiority aircraft for most countries including the USA. Some 4000 have already been ordered by USA, allies and NATO. So the project will be cash positive I am pretty sure. Australia paid $190 million per aircraft but Australia is a stakeholder (Turkey is also a significant stakeholder in the project) in the project since they build various components. The export cost is actually about $100 million. The F22 is about double that.

The F-22 is earmarked to replace the EA-18G Growler aircraft for the RAAF. The are no restrictions on Australia as far as I know and some of the systems on it are Australian. Australia is already invested in both projects.

The media is full of a lot of nnonsense. The F-35 project has been significantly delayed due to issues, but it certainly is state of the art. It will be the best Fighter along with the Typhoon for quite some time. Yes the F-22 is better technically.


What do you think about this article;

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -cost.html


The article is reasonably valid from a good source which usually do their homework.

there is no doubt that the F-35 has blown out and the project has been plagued with one setback after another raising costs higher than previously thought. The reason why these prejects are so expensive to begin with is because of the millions of man hours in R&D, as is even the case with things like computers and Iphones etc.

The prototypes will have a huge cost, and even Australia and Turkey have been hit hard and had to pitch in money towards the project. I think there are about 12 countries involved.

https://www.f35.com/global

As I said, Australia paid $190 million per unit. It's about the same cost as buying an F-22.

But as I said, there are at least 10 countries with firm orders and on top of that you can probably add Portugal, Denmark, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Greece, Germany and quite a few more. So Lockheed will make money once large scale production occurs.

As to the projected life cycle cost, it doesn't surprise me at all. these aircraft cost a lot to buy, to maintain, to upgrade, and to fly. They won't be as dear as the F-22.

Also, as the global F-16 and F-18 fleet ages, they become a lot more expensive to keep maintaining as is usually the case.
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Re: Hellenic Defence Industries

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:14 pm

Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:


USN and RAAF are the only ones to have these beautiful Growlers.

We know what the Chinese have and don't have, so don't believe a word of it. They are 30 years behind and can't even copy American or Australian cars, refrigerators, and washing machines yet. :lol:


chenese declare low trade figures and the west loses 7 trillion in share trading.
chinese have 200 trillion in reserves
americans are 200 trillion in debt

all the chinese have to do is pull their money out of usa and you are all furqued you stupid idot.


They had a splutter which they will recover from I have no doubt.

We are fine however so don't worry about our 7 Trillion. It's all a cycle, and investors will make that back and a lot more in no time. Our Share Market only went down 4% yesterday and that is chicken feed old boy and a testament to how strong and resilient we are.

the Share market went up 2% today which means we only lost 3.5 Trillion now. So we recovered 50% is less than 24 hours. LUCKY HEY! :D

Oh BTW, all Australia needs to do is to stop trade with China and they are on their knees stupid old boy. But we won't do that because we make a lot of money from them, and they make money from us. So we are negotiating Free Trade Agreements with them on an unprecedented scale which will make the EU just an annoying little pimple on our arses! :lol:

As with anything, money talks and bullshit walks. As long as everyone is making money, everyone is happy and we have peace with them. If that changes, then who knows.
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