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A step for a solution

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby ONURLU_1925 » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:40 pm

Where is your proofs ? Can your country open its public archieves? 200.000 GCs were killed is only your imagination.
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Postby pg » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:47 pm

Down at street level Greek and Turkish Cypriots has no problem what so ever... it is hardly necessary running "mixed" experiments to establish that.

I suspect we have a big problem with the aspect of whether the military can/should be part of a solution to a political problem or not.

From a European perspective the military has no place in solving political problems in a European country. In 2005 all, especially young educated, Greek Cypriots see is as obvious.

On the other hand we have Turkey where the military is central to handling Turkey's own main political problem - the Kurdish - in south-eastern Turkey.

Overall it will be very useful for Turkey to draw parallells between the Turkish Cypriot minority and the Kurdish minority and try to work out some common logic to handling these problems. Turkey's European course will force public reasoning in this areas.

My view is that I see no major problems from GC letting TC run their own show in their area of Cyprus - at the same time there is no way any 'gifts' will be given to Turkey and the Turkish army.

In addition, there is no way GC will give away the family land plots.

In short, the TC community need to cut short the Turkish army and also implement European rulings on the property issue.
Now we ended up with two (one?) groups that not often let go of things they have - "generals and land-owners".
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Postby ONURLU_1925 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:22 pm

From a European perspective the military has no place in solbing political problems in a European country, you said, I'm laughning. We saw how European countries armies' have had shared Iraq.

But you don't know something about Kurdish people. They aren't minorty and they won't be minorty.
Lausanne Peace Decration have said the minority in Turkey, it is an international declaration and your countries accept this. The minorty in Turkey is only non-muslim citizens. Please be careful about your expressions. Your minorty defination on Kurdish people is imaginary.

EU want to destroy the nation-state construction of Turkey. Our leader, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk said that "if you feel you as a Turk, you are a Turk". Nobody compels someone to be a Turk, in Turkey. There isn't also Kurdish people problem in Turkey, Kurdish people are our citizens and they are Turks. However, there is an ethnic terrorism in Turkey based on Kurdish people. It is EU and ABD's one of the biggest games, which playing on Turkey's national integrity. Our 50,000 citizens, both Turkish and Kurdish(they are also Turkish people) were murdered by this ethnic terrorism organization. The leader of this organization, Abdullah Öcalan was saved by Greece in Athens for months.
He was arrested in Kenya with his South Cyprus diplomatical passport. I'm sorry, but your countries have support terrorism and at first please solve this problems in your countries.
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Postby pg » Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:37 pm

I think you need to look again at the Lausanne treaty... it mentions both religous ("non-muslem") and language minorities...
http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1918p/lausanne.html

Anyway, I think we need not be too legal about the issue... we are anyway talking about political problems.
http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=33053

Lett's call both Kurdish Turks and Turkish Cypriots for 'groups' within each country - and both are around 15-20% and although most of them are fine, there are some problems to sort out.
Naturally the Turkish army is trying to deal with the terrorists but seem to step in to the political arena too.
Unfortunately, the Cypriot goverment did not manage to deal with the Cypriot terrorists in the 60s-70s (EOKA-B and TMT). Still, I consider terrorists to be an issue for the police, not the army.

So, my point was - how do we best have these 15% groups live in harmony with the rest of the populations? Naturally, there is some difference between not even admitting to their existence, and allowing full and equial sovereignty; and also that is part of the discussion. In order for Turkey to gain some credability it can not apply standards too far away from each other to the issues. It does not have to be as scary as it sounds... Turkish Cypriots does not really want their own state - and not Kurdish Turks either. In both cases it makes more sense to be part of something bigger - as long as the details can be sorted out.

And the details, in Cyprus, are army and property since I think most GC are happy to have TC run their own problems, meaning schools, hospitals, police, etc, etc.
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Postby ONURLU_1925 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:38 pm

pg my friend;
look at the Section III and articles 37 to 45. These are the only articles, which defines minorty in Turkey,
can you see the minorty defination? The definition of minorty in Turkey is Non-Muslims. There isn't any minorities based on language. Where did you see it? Did you do day-dreaming :P?

And the second web-site given by you; these are only the comments of the author and they didn't bond Turkey.
did you see these lines?
-For Turkey, a "minority group" is one of the specific non-Muslim minorities defined by the Lausanne Treaty.


On the other hand, depending on personal comments, the author classified these language as minorty languages, but they are local languages.

EOKA-B was terrorist group, but TMT only defended TCs against these group. TMT didn't attack GCs villages suddenly and didn't kill children, women, old/aged people.


Now, let me give an example about minority languages issue in Europe. We can see easily that EU minorty ideas.
Do you know Bask zone in Spain? Bask people has also a language. In 2002, Atletico Bilbao, the bask region team, has sportgears, on which was written articles in Bask language and drawn Bask Region Map. Spain Government and Football Association banned these sportgears. Please search this...

EU want to destroy the national integrity of Turkey. EU didn't apply their standarts in their own country, but EU want to apply them in Turkey. EU want to differ Turkey and create new countries in Anatolia, for example Kurdistan, Lesser Armenia. But they won't do that. We will never get permission to this.
Last edited by ONURLU_1925 on Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ONURLU_1925 » Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:01 pm

I will write something about these minorty topic.
You can cleary see there isn't any article, which defines any other minorites except non-Muslims, in Lausanne declaration. The only minorty defination is Non-Muslims as you see.

However, I told you EU's purpose in previous post. EU claims that there are another minorites, languages minorities, in Turkey according to its Progress Report. Claims of EU depends on two sentences.
There are these two sentences in Lausanne PD. In Article 39;
- No restrictions shall be imposed on the free use by any Turkish national of any language in private intercourse, in commerce, religion, in the press, or in publications of any kind or at public meetings.
- Notwithstanding the existence of the official language, adequate facilities shall be given to Turkish nationals of non-Turkish speech for the oral use of their own language before the Courts.

Do you see any minorty definition in these sentences? No. :)

I have another question to you. Have you ever read the French constitution? There is not any minorty definition in it. France say that minority definition is an discrimination of people. But same France want to create new minorty definitions in Turkey.

I don't explain this dilemma. Maybe Lord Curzon(he was foreignminister of England) could explain.

He said to Churchill after Lausanne PD;
"We give Turks many freedom. Now, they are an independence and powerful country. But today their leader is a genius. One day he will be dead and we will take back Turkey's independence and power."
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Postby Piratis » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:47 am

TMT didn't attack GCs villages suddenly and didn't kill children, women, old/aged people.

You are indeed extremely brainwashed.

TMT did as many crimes as EOKA-B did. TMT had partition as an aim, and its founders had this as their aim long before 1960.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:52 am

Where is your proofs ? Can your country open its public archieves? 200.000 GCs were killed is only your imagination.


I said 200.000 GCs were ethnically cleansed. I didn't say this number was killed.
About 6000 were killed, and this is a number far greater than the losses of TCs.

The 200.000 are the people that were forced out of their homes. These were the people that are the majority of the north part of Cyprus. Turkey forced them out of their homes and brought illegal settlers from Turkey in their place in order to create a pure Turkish pseudo puppet state on the land that had a Greek majority for 3500 years. This is why "TRNC" is and will remain illegal until the day our country will be liberated from the Turkish occupation.
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Postby akiner » Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:14 am

Piratis wrote:
Where is your proofs ? Can your country open its public archieves? 200.000 GCs were killed is only your imagination.


I said 200.000 GCs were ethnically cleansed. I didn't say this number was killed.
About 6000 were killed, and this is a number far greater than the losses of TCs.

The 200.000 are the people that were forced out of their homes. These were the people that are the majority of the north part of Cyprus. Turkey forced them out of their homes and brought illegal settlers from Turkey in their place in order to create a pure Turkish pseudo puppet state on the land that had a Greek majority for 3500 years. This is why "TRNC" is and will remain illegal until the day our country will be liberated from the Turkish occupation.


If your leaders continue to run away from the negotiation table and just waiting to see benefits of Eu on this issue, neither me nor u will see that DAY :?
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Postby ONURLU_1925 » Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:08 am

I'm sorry piratis, you said that ethnically cleansed. However, do you believe this?
GCs went to South and TCs went to North. Why?
Enosis and Megali Idea dreams of EOKA&Greece are the reasons.
The only solution of preventing genocide on Turkish Cypriots was Turkish Army's intervention.
EOKA butchers attacked innocent people.
We established a new country in order to protect Turkish Cypriots.
Today, it also prevents another Turkish Cypriots' Genocide.

Piratis, can you give me the dates, in which GCs' villages were busted by TMT?
Do you want to know EOKA's carnages dates in Turkish Cypriots villages?
If you want, I will give my friend :P

Piratis, Is there any evidence or document about the Greek casualties from a neutral and respectible source? Please give these evidences? Pleaseeeeee :lol:
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