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US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syria

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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Zenon33 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:17 pm

Paphitis wrote:Oh and I forgot to answer one of your questions.

I do not place the USA on a pedestal. I in fact criticize them often in real life.

But they are our ally. A very important ally. They have been very good to us. Extremely good in fact and even saved us from a terrible invasion. They collaborate and assist us on so many levels. They respect us even when we are not that respectful towards them.

As a strategic partner, there is nothing they would not do for us.

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.

As I said, they are a strategic partner of immense importance. However, Canada and Australia are much closer along with NZ. These countries have a much more special relationship so much so, we exchange Military personnel. Not uncommon for instance for a RAAF jet being flown by a Canadian or a RCAF jet being flown by an Australian. We also have mixed mixed crews on aircraft.



Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:33 pm

Zenon33 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Oh and I forgot to answer one of your questions.

I do not place the USA on a pedestal. I in fact criticize them often in real life.

But they are our ally. A very important ally. They have been very good to us. Extremely good in fact and even saved us from a terrible invasion. They collaborate and assist us on so many levels. They respect us even when we are not that respectful towards them.

As a strategic partner, there is nothing they would not do for us.

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.

As I said, they are a strategic partner of immense importance. However, Canada and Australia are much closer along with NZ. These countries have a much more special relationship so much so, we exchange Military personnel. Not uncommon for instance for a RAAF jet being flown by a Canadian or a RCAF jet being flown by an Australian. We also have mixed mixed crews on aircraft.



Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.


Will Israel is an ally to the USA and vice versa.

Your thinking is very dangerous Zenon. Firstly, you can't be an ally to Israel without the USA. If you're an ally to Israel, then you're an ally to the USA.

Turkey is a member of NATO. Cyprus should have been a member of NATO. You will eventually need to be an ally of Turkey once they withdraw from Cyprus.

And remember, all is not well between Israel and Turkey. So all can't be a bed of roses between the USA and Turkey.

Just be very careful because the USA is an important country and it's in our best interest to make sure our relationship with them is positive and constructive otherwise we will lose a lot just like in the past.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Zenon33 » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:42 pm

Paphitis wrote:
Zenon33 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Oh and I forgot to answer one of your questions.

I do not place the USA on a pedestal. I in fact criticize them often in real life.

But they are our ally. A very important ally. They have been very good to us. Extremely good in fact and even saved us from a terrible invasion. They collaborate and assist us on so many levels. They respect us even when we are not that respectful towards them.

As a strategic partner, there is nothing they would not do for us.

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.

As I said, they are a strategic partner of immense importance. However, Canada and Australia are much closer along with NZ. These countries have a much more special relationship so much so, we exchange Military personnel. Not uncommon for instance for a RAAF jet being flown by a Canadian or a RCAF jet being flown by an Australian. We also have mixed mixed crews on aircraft.



Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.


Will Israel is an ally to the USA and vice versa.

Your thinking is very dangerous Zenon. Firstly, you can't be an ally to Israel without the USA. If you're an ally to Israel, then you're an ally to the USA.

Turkey is a member of NATO. Cyprus should have been a member of NATO. You will eventually need to be an ally of Turkey once they withdraw from Cyprus.

And remember, all is not well between Israel and Turkey. So all can't be a bed of roses between the USA and Turkey.

Just be very careful because the USA is an important country and it's in our best interest to make sure our relationship with them is positive and constructive otherwise we will lose a lot just like in the past.



Of course, USA is also an ally. We have important allies, Israel, Greece, the USA and UK and the EU.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:45 pm

Paphitis:
It is true we** want regime change in Syria but at a time that will suit us which invariably means a transition to a stable handover to moderates and not some Islamist extremists like DAESH, or other groups. That is not in our interests at all, neither is a 20 year war containing these crazy elements. Assad is a lot more easier to handle.

( ** ‘We’ as in the US or ‘We’ as in Australia/ NATO/Western Nations?)


Isn’t every aspect of these events aimed to suit the timing and requirements of the US? But, why not work with Assad’s forces to that end and THEN put ASSAD on the ‘naughty step’ for a good dressing down when DAESH and all the other Islamic groups have been eliminated? (or at least thinned out!).

Going back to when the unrest started in Syria, didn’t Assad back down after the emergence of the first ‘spring’ uprising and agree to changes? I seem to recall that these were being implemented when the ‘opposition rebels’ decided to make it a shooting war, with the immediate support of Hilary Clinton who was the US mouthpiece at the time.
This is the Sping RH. Yes the Arab Spring was hijacked by extremists, and we lost 2 puppets of our own.

WE’ should not have been involved in the first bloody place ....... these decision can only be made by the people whose country it is! Take a look at what is going on in Yemen. The people got rid of the US/Israeli/Saudi puppet and now this trio is intent on putting him back into power by any means possible. But the US is not going to put boots on the ground to achieve the aim ..... they are prepared to wait.
Also, the IAF has not been waging an extensive campaign to degrade the regime. It has conducted airstrikes in Syria but these strikes were against Al Nusra elements who control most of the Syrian and Israeli border and who regularly fire upon IDF positions in the Golan Heights.

The ISAF attacks Assad’s installations and Syrian people on a regular basis and has been doing so since Putin calmed things down by getting Assad to destroy his chemical weapons and facilities. But as I said previously, you very rarely see this mentioned in the MSM. If it is mentioned it is always in the context of destroying weapons ‘.... on their way to Hezbollah’. I am sure you how and why Hezbollah came into being with the assistance of Iran? :roll:

I would also point out that in International Law the Golan Heights belongs to Syria, as does part of southern Lebanon occupied by Israel. Much of the lands called Israel, is Palestinian land under occupation by Zionist Forces! Once again, under International Law these countries have an incontrovertible right to defend their lands against an occupying force. On the other hand Israel has no such rights as they are an occupying force that acquired the land through force of arms and every attack is an act of war. This is another reason why I do not hold the US in great regard as they have supported all these breaches of International Law and various conventions, since Israel unilaterally declared it’s existence in 1948. :x

You mentioned that Syrian Forces have shot down an IAF jet. Can you provide some information please? Where and when? What missile was used and what happened to the Israeli Pilot? The Israelis would want him back? Has he been returned to Israel?

Here are a few sites that covered the story. Credibility? Like all these sites that get the information direct from the battle field, confirmation takes time to get through. At least the report is not just an identical ‘Reuters’ report syndicated by a 1001 news outlets. It would appear that the pilot had no time to eject. Note also that the Syrians are getting crafty? Use less effective missiles to occupy the aircrafts electronics and then launch the S-300!

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940531000300
http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-shoots-down-israeli-warplane-f-16-bomber-and-helicopters/5471009
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150822/1026069664/israeli-jet-shot-down-over-syria.html


As a strategic partner, there is nothing they (The US) would not do for us.

If it is in THEIR strategic or commercial interests to do so! Suez Canal and The Falklands being two examples that spring to mind, where support from the US for their allies was not forthcoming.

IMO the last military action by the US that had any legitimacy was the Berlin Air Lift!!!! The first Gulf War is questionable because it is often argued that Saddam had the nod from the US Sec. of State and US Ambassador, to go for Kuwait. But certainly since then all their military interventions have been in the sole interests of the USA!

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.


And yet Putin’s popularity rating is over 80% whereas Obama’s is barely in double figures. People do not seem capable of differentiating between Putin's Russia and the USSR’s communist regime(s). As you point out, times have moved on and I regard Putin as a very astute leader. :wink:
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Get Real! » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:08 pm

Watch the reasoning of a fool ending up with a twisted pair of knickers... :lol:

Post 1:
Zenon33 wrote:Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.

Post 2:
Zenon33 wrote:Of course, USA is also an ally. We have important allies, Israel, Greece, the USA and UK and the EU.


Zenon, I’m sure you’re a nice guy but God did not grant you with a lot upstairs. Most people don’t need to have a lot upstairs anyway to get through daily life.

For your info Cyprus does NOT have any allies… never did. Cyprus only had trading partners.

In the case of Israel we’re buying more than we’re selling to them, so I wouldn’t even call them a special trading partner let alone an ally.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:10 pm

Zenon33 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Zenon33 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Oh and I forgot to answer one of your questions.

I do not place the USA on a pedestal. I in fact criticize them often in real life.

But they are our ally. A very important ally. They have been very good to us. Extremely good in fact and even saved us from a terrible invasion. They collaborate and assist us on so many levels. They respect us even when we are not that respectful towards them.

As a strategic partner, there is nothing they would not do for us.

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.

As I said, they are a strategic partner of immense importance. However, Canada and Australia are much closer along with NZ. These countries have a much more special relationship so much so, we exchange Military personnel. Not uncommon for instance for a RAAF jet being flown by a Canadian or a RCAF jet being flown by an Australian. We also have mixed mixed crews on aircraft.



Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.


Will Israel is an ally to the USA and vice versa.

Your thinking is very dangerous Zenon. Firstly, you can't be an ally to Israel without the USA. If you're an ally to Israel, then you're an ally to the USA.

Turkey is a member of NATO. Cyprus should have been a member of NATO. You will eventually need to be an ally of Turkey once they withdraw from Cyprus.

And remember, all is not well between Israel and Turkey. So all can't be a bed of roses between the USA and Turkey.

Just be very careful because the USA is an important country and it's in our best interest to make sure our relationship with them is positive and constructive otherwise we will lose a lot just like in the past.



Of course, USA is also an ally. We have important allies, Israel, Greece, the USA and UK and the EU.


Agreed 100%
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Get Real! » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:24 pm

Btw Zenon, Cyprus and Israel are connected via underwater electricity cables… it’s like an umbilical cord for Israel so that when they next head in some direction slaughtering women and children and Hezbollah or Hamas manages a hit on their power generators, they’ll be able to switch Cyprus off from its energy and suck our power supply to keep them going!

So I guess you could boast that we have a ONE-WAY alliance with them!

Electricity flows in their direction when needed and Jewish hot air comes back down the other end!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Get Real! on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:25 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Paphitis:
It is true we** want regime change in Syria but at a time that will suit us which invariably means a transition to a stable handover to moderates and not some Islamist extremists like DAESH, or other groups. That is not in our interests at all, neither is a 20 year war containing these crazy elements. Assad is a lot more easier to handle.

( ** ‘We’ as in the US or ‘We’ as in Australia/ NATO/Western Nations?)


Isn’t every aspect of these events aimed to suit the timing and requirements of the US? But, why not work with Assad’s forces to that end and THEN put ASSAD on the ‘naughty step’ for a good dressing down when DAESH and all the other Islamic groups have been eliminated? (or at least thinned out!).

Going back to when the unrest started in Syria, didn’t Assad back down after the emergence of the first ‘spring’ uprising and agree to changes? I seem to recall that these were being implemented when the ‘opposition rebels’ decided to make it a shooting war, with the immediate support of Hilary Clinton who was the US mouthpiece at the time.
This is the Sping RH. Yes the Arab Spring was hijacked by extremists, and we lost 2 puppets of our own.

WE’ should not have been involved in the first bloody place ....... these decision can only be made by the people whose country it is! Take a look at what is going on in Yemen. The people got rid of the US/Israeli/Saudi puppet and now this trio is intent on putting him back into power by any means possible. But the US is not going to put boots on the ground to achieve the aim ..... they are prepared to wait.
Also, the IAF has not been waging an extensive campaign to degrade the regime. It has conducted airstrikes in Syria but these strikes were against Al Nusra elements who control most of the Syrian and Israeli border and who regularly fire upon IDF positions in the Golan Heights.

The ISAF attacks Assad’s installations and Syrian people on a regular basis and has been doing so since Putin calmed things down by getting Assad to destroy his chemical weapons and facilities. But as I said previously, you very rarely see this mentioned in the MSM. If it is mentioned it is always in the context of destroying weapons ‘.... on their way to Hezbollah’. I am sure you how and why Hezbollah came into being with the assistance of Iran? :roll:

I would also point out that in International Law the Golan Heights belongs to Syria, as does part of southern Lebanon occupied by Israel. Much of the lands called Israel, is Palestinian land under occupation by Zionist Forces! Once again, under International Law these countries have an incontrovertible right to defend their lands against an occupying force. On the other hand Israel has no such rights as they are an occupying force that acquired the land through force of arms and every attack is an act of war. This is another reason why I do not hold the US in great regard as they have supported all these breaches of International Law and various conventions, since Israel unilaterally declared it’s existence in 1948. :x

You mentioned that Syrian Forces have shot down an IAF jet. Can you provide some information please? Where and when? What missile was used and what happened to the Israeli Pilot? The Israelis would want him back? Has he been returned to Israel?

Here are a few sites that covered the story. Credibility? Like all these sites that get the information direct from the battle field, confirmation takes time to get through. At least the report is not just an identical ‘Reuters’ report syndicated by a 1001 news outlets. It would appear that the pilot had no time to eject. Note also that the Syrians are getting crafty? Use less effective missiles to occupy the aircrafts electronics and then launch the S-300!

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940531000300
http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-shoots-down-israeli-warplane-f-16-bomber-and-helicopters/5471009
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150822/1026069664/israeli-jet-shot-down-over-syria.html


As a strategic partner, there is nothing they (The US) would not do for us.

If it is in THEIR strategic or commercial interests to do so! Suez Canal and The Falklands being two examples that spring to mind, where support from the US for their allies was not forthcoming.

IMO the last military action by the US that had any legitimacy was the Berlin Air Lift!!!! The first Gulf War is questionable because it is often argued that Saddam had the nod from the US Sec. of State and US Ambassador, to go for Kuwait. But certainly since then all their military interventions have been in the sole interests of the USA!

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.


And yet Putin’s popularity rating is over 80% whereas Obama’s is barely in double figures. People do not seem capable of differentiating between Putin's Russia and the USSR’s communist regime(s). As you point out, times have moved on and I regard Putin as a very astute leader. :wink:


The we is Australia. But it can equally apply to every single EU country or NATO member.

RH, we remained out of Syria for years and we were hellbent on staying out and let the Syrians sort it all out. We still to this day have not been involved with fighting the regime. Maybe this could change in the future but we do not even have a plan as yet so don't even know how it will pan out. all we know is that we do not want Syria to be in the hands of some crazy Islamist groups like DAESH but we don't want Assad either.

We started fighting DAESH primarily because they were running rampant in Iraq. They then started to provoke us by beheading our citizens on YouTube, so we extended our operations against them at the siource which is Syria.

As for Assad, we know that he is responsible for all these Islamists groups a lot more than the SHIA run Iraqi Government (which is not blameless either).

At the moment, we are not interested in removing Assad because it could be a lot worse. Assad however can redeem himself by negotiating some kind of settlement. They will need to come to the table and begin negotiations with the Syrian People, FSA, and other moderate groups and the majority Sunnis. We don't care if they don't have a democracy, but they will need to include the Sunnis in their Government.

If Assad does this and allows for an acceptable transition, then the wind may be taken from DAESH's sails. DAESH sustains itself from the intolerance and persecution of the Sunnis by the Assad regime. So if this persecution ceases, then I would presume that this will damage DAESH. All that is needed after that is for the coalition to destroy the remnants and we then withdraw and allow the Syrian Security Forces control of the entire country. Be careful though because we will not allow them to attack the Kurds.

Assad has all the power RH! But does he want to do the right thing? So far no!
Last edited by Paphitis on Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Paphitis » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:28 pm

Get Real! wrote:Btw Zenon, Cyprus and Israel are connected via underwater electricity cables… it’s like an umbilical cord for Israel so that when they next head in some direction slaughtering women and children and Hezbollah or Hamas mages a hit on their power generators, they’ll be able to switch Cyprus off from its energy and suck our power supply to keep them going!

So I guess you could boast that we have a ONE-WAY alliance with them!

Electricity flows in their direction when needed and Jewish hot air comes back down the other end!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


What a load of shit.

If you got an umbilical cord then it's 2 way because you could use their generated power. your grids are effectively connected.

And we know why that is the case. It's because you do stupid things like putting Assad's illegal weapons in sea containers right next to your biggest power station and in 40 degree heat! :lol:

Why you didn't just hand them over to USA or UK to dispose of no one knows. Oh yeh of course, Christofias had plans to hand them over to Assad and ended up embarrassing himself and killing Cypriots. Stupid fucker!!!

Oh and the new Shaldag Patrol Boats operated by the CNG are Israeli.

Additionally, Cyprus may be buying Israeli Corvettes.
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Re: US military revolt against Obama's foreign policy in Syr

Postby Lordo » Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:29 pm

Zenon33 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Oh and I forgot to answer one of your questions.

I do not place the USA on a pedestal. I in fact criticize them often in real life.

But they are our ally. A very important ally. They have been very good to us. Extremely good in fact and even saved us from a terrible invasion. They collaborate and assist us on so many levels. They respect us even when we are not that respectful towards them.

As a strategic partner, there is nothing they would not do for us.

And even with all their issues (gun control, arrogance at times), they are a hell of a lot better than Putin's Russia or silly repressive regimes like Assad. Hands down better it is silly even comparing.

As I said, they are a strategic partner of immense importance. However, Canada and Australia are much closer along with NZ. These countries have a much more special relationship so much so, we exchange Military personnel. Not uncommon for instance for a RAAF jet being flown by a Canadian or a RCAF jet being flown by an Australian. We also have mixed mixed crews on aircraft.



Our most important ally is Israel not the USA. And remember that USA is also an ally of Turkey, our first enemy.

so was israel till they killed 9 terggish charity workers. it will not be long before they are friends again.
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