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I hate Putin more than ISIL

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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby miltiades » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:19 am

Why Western democracy can never work in the Middle East
By Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html

" The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries where family, tribe, sect and personal friendships trump the apparatus of the state. These are certainly not societies governed by the rule of law. On the contrary, they are better described as “favour for favour” societies. When you have a problem of any kind, you look for someone related to you by family, tribe or region to help you out and requests are most unlikely to be refused since these ties are especially powerful. In countries where there is no effective social security, your future security lies only in the often extensive family. "

I think Andrew Green knows a little more about these nations than some of us do.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Tim Drayton » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:42 am

miltiades wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:All ME countries are ruled by dictators, not least Saudi Arabia, a nation that imprisoned a westerner for a year and sentenced him to 350 lashes for the crime of being in possession of 5 bottles of wine. Huge crime !!

No nation in the ME will EVER be governed by a democratic system as such systems are incompatible with their brand of religious mythology.

Why remove a dictator that has ruled Syria for many relatively peaceful years. He is removed and, just like Libya the nation collapses in utter chaos.
The West has got it wrong. Russia is right.


Given your above arguments, I don't see what your issue is with Daesh. They rule with a tyranny unmatched elsewhere and base their rule on a most extreme and warped interpretation the mythology of religion. Surely they then must be the perfect candidates to rule of the Middle East by your criteria.

Absolutely Not Tim. There is no other dictatorship in the ME with the same credentials as the savage barbarians. You appear to have a great deal of faith in the ability or willingness of ME nations to adopt somehow a democratic mode of governance. In the entire history of the ME there has never been a governance sytem other than dictatorship. It will never change until there is a REAL Arab awakening. Until peoiple in the ME begin to question their driving force which is none other than their religion.
Freedom of speech, though, expression, freedom of faith all are taboo in the ME.

Assad has ruled Syria, and before him his father, for more than 40 years, the country was relatively peaceful if you exclude the Israel war.

The problem the West has is the inability to face realities in that democracy can never be force fed to Syrians or to other ME countries. Its a fact of life in this part of the world.
You can not tolerate and nurture one dictatorship, ie Saudi Arabia, and then demand the removal of another. If and when Assad goes, anothet " Assad" will take his place.


I fully agree that it has to be an internal process. Perhaps unlike you, I consider what broke out at in the first months of 2011 in Syria to be the beginnings of a genuine revolution. I also think that things are far from over. I also think that if a genuine movement for progressive change is victorious anywhere in the Middle East, it will not necessarily lead to a carbon copy of what we currently have in developed Western countries, but could produce something new and different, perhaps even better. Let us also not forget Tunisia, where democratic change has occurred.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:07 am

miltiades wrote:Why Western democracy can never work in the Middle East
By Andrew Green, former Ambassador to Syria and to Saudi Arabia
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -East.html

" The fundamental reason for our failure is that democracy, as we understand it, simply doesn’t work in Middle Eastern countries where family, tribe, sect and personal friendships trump the apparatus of the state. These are certainly not societies governed by the rule of law. On the contrary, they are better described as “favour for favour” societies. When you have a problem of any kind, you look for someone related to you by family, tribe or region to help you out and requests are most unlikely to be refused since these ties are especially powerful. In countries where there is no effective social security, your future security lies only in the often extensive family. "

I think Andrew Green knows a little more about these nations than some of us do.

you is talkin out of you arse again you stupid fool. it is the yanks who will not allow western democracy in the arab lands. you are old enough to remember the yanks removing a western style democracy with a dictatorship in iran and yet you spew out all this crap. it is the yanks who supported saddam and it is yanks who support every arab dictatorship to this day. it was yanks who removed a democratically elected government in egypt and replaced it with a dictatorship. oh they had to pretend they do not support it and stop the money for a while and then of course they started support a few months later. how else are they going to fool stupid old fools like you.

a little early for the red aint it.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby miltiades » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:00 am

The Forums Idiot adds his twopence worth of ...knowledge.
He cant even spell Tercy :lol: :lol:
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:08 am

miltiades wrote:The Forums Idiot adds his twopence worth of ...knowledge.
He cant even spell Tercy :lol: :lol:

1953 iran you stupid old fool.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Paphitis » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:38 am

miltiades wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:All ME countries are ruled by dictators, not least Saudi Arabia, a nation that imprisoned a westerner for a year and sentenced him to 350 lashes for the crime of being in possession of 5 bottles of wine. Huge crime !!

No nation in the ME will EVER be governed by a democratic system as such systems are incompatible with their brand of religious mythology.

Why remove a dictator that has ruled Syria for many relatively peaceful years. He is removed and, just like Libya the nation collapses in utter chaos.
The West has got it wrong. Russia is right.


Given your above arguments, I don't see what your issue is with Daesh. They rule with a tyranny unmatched elsewhere and base their rule on a most extreme and warped interpretation the mythology of religion. Surely they then must be the perfect candidates to rule of the Middle East by your criteria.

Absolutely Not Tim. There is no other dictatorship in the ME with the same credentials as the savage barbarians. You appear to have a great deal of faith in the ability or willingness of ME nations to adopt somehow a democratic mode of governance. In the entire history of the ME there has never been a governance sytem other than dictatorship. It will never change until there is a REAL Arab awakening. Until peoiple in the ME begin to question their driving force which is none other than their religion.
Freedom of speech, though, expression, freedom of faith all are taboo in the ME.

Assad has ruled Syria, and before him his father, for more than 40 years, the country was relatively peaceful if you exclude the Israel war.

The problem the West has is the inability to face realities in that democracy can never be force fed to Syrians or to other ME countries. Its a fact of life in this part of the world.
You can not tolerate and nurture one dictatorship, ie Saudi Arabia, and then demand the removal of another. If and when Assad goes, anothet " Assad" will take his place.


Attack Helicopters over demonstrators! how is that for credentials?

The Syrian People are intelligent enough to take control of their country. Pretty hard working people if given a chance, that place a big emphasis on education.

Sorry, but the revolution has started, 240,000 have been killed in the process and I don't think it will stop anytime soon unless Assad goes.

Then you can defeat ISIL in months, perhaps weeks.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:31 pm

Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:All ME countries are ruled by dictators, not least Saudi Arabia, a nation that imprisoned a westerner for a year and sentenced him to 350 lashes for the crime of being in possession of 5 bottles of wine. Huge crime !!

No nation in the ME will EVER be governed by a democratic system as such systems are incompatible with their brand of religious mythology.

Why remove a dictator that has ruled Syria for many relatively peaceful years. He is removed and, just like Libya the nation collapses in utter chaos.
The West has got it wrong. Russia is right.


Given your above arguments, I don't see what your issue is with Daesh. They rule with a tyranny unmatched elsewhere and base their rule on a most extreme and warped interpretation the mythology of religion. Surely they then must be the perfect candidates to rule of the Middle East by your criteria.

Absolutely Not Tim. There is no other dictatorship in the ME with the same credentials as the savage barbarians. You appear to have a great deal of faith in the ability or willingness of ME nations to adopt somehow a democratic mode of governance. In the entire history of the ME there has never been a governance sytem other than dictatorship. It will never change until there is a REAL Arab awakening. Until peoiple in the ME begin to question their driving force which is none other than their religion.
Freedom of speech, though, expression, freedom of faith all are taboo in the ME.

Assad has ruled Syria, and before him his father, for more than 40 years, the country was relatively peaceful if you exclude the Israel war.

The problem the West has is the inability to face realities in that democracy can never be force fed to Syrians or to other ME countries. Its a fact of life in this part of the world.
You can not tolerate and nurture one dictatorship, ie Saudi Arabia, and then demand the removal of another. If and when Assad goes, anothet " Assad" will take his place.


Attack Helicopters over demonstrators! how is that for credentials?

The Syrian People are intelligent enough to take control of their country. Pretty hard working people if given a chance, that place a big emphasis on education.

Sorry, but the revolution has started, 240,000 have been killed in the process and I don't think it will stop anytime soon unless Assad goes.

Then you can defeat ISIL in months, perhaps weeks.

what did bush say in iraq. this war is over. that was 10 years ago youuuuuuu stupid boy. you will never learn. this war will be over when the yanks go home and take israel with them.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:27 pm

Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:All ME countries are ruled by dictators, not least Saudi Arabia, a nation that imprisoned a westerner for a year and sentenced him to 350 lashes for the crime of being in possession of 5 bottles of wine. Huge crime !!

No nation in the ME will EVER be governed by a democratic system as such systems are incompatible with their brand of religious mythology.

Why remove a dictator that has ruled Syria for many relatively peaceful years. He is removed and, just like Libya the nation collapses in utter chaos.
The West has got it wrong. Russia is right.


Given your above arguments, I don't see what your issue is with Daesh. They rule with a tyranny unmatched elsewhere and base their rule on a most extreme and warped interpretation the mythology of religion. Surely they then must be the perfect candidates to rule of the Middle East by your criteria.

Absolutely Not Tim. There is no other dictatorship in the ME with the same credentials as the savage barbarians. You appear to have a great deal of faith in the ability or willingness of ME nations to adopt somehow a democratic mode of governance. In the entire history of the ME there has never been a governance sytem other than dictatorship. It will never change until there is a REAL Arab awakening. Until peoiple in the ME begin to question their driving force which is none other than their religion.
Freedom of speech, though, expression, freedom of faith all are taboo in the ME.

Assad has ruled Syria, and before him his father, for more than 40 years, the country was relatively peaceful if you exclude the Israel war.

The problem the West has is the inability to face realities in that democracy can never be force fed to Syrians or to other ME countries. Its a fact of life in this part of the world.
You can not tolerate and nurture one dictatorship, ie Saudi Arabia, and then demand the removal of another. If and when Assad goes, anothet " Assad" will take his place.


Attack Helicopters over demonstrators! how is that for credentials?

The Syrian People are intelligent enough to take control of their country. Pretty hard working people if given a chance, that place a big emphasis on education.

Sorry, but the revolution has started, 240,000 have been killed in the process and I don't think it will stop anytime soon unless Assad goes.

Then you can defeat ISIL in months, perhaps weeks.

what did bush say in iraq. this war is over. that was 10 years ago youuuuuuu stupid boy. you will never learn. this war will be over when the yanks go home and take israel with them.


Can they take Turkey with them too? I am tired of U.S and their genocide instigating allies.
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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby Lordo » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:49 pm

terrgy was in terggy before the yanks appeared on this god forsaken earth. hte yanks had nothing to do with their existence.

stupid boy.


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Re: I hate Putin more than ISIL

Postby DrCyprus » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:37 pm

Lordo wrote:terrgy was in terggy before the yanks appeared on this god forsaken earth. hte yanks had nothing to do with their existence.

stupid boy.


America was discovered just 50 years after the Ottoman Empire was established. You have the same age.
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