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Cynical Engineering.

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Cynical Engineering.

Postby Garavnoss » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:36 pm

Some evidence that the division of Cyprus was cynically engineered by the UK & US to serve their strategic interests.

Though one cannot dismiss the possibility that "Israel" was also involved [if not the main instigator] since they are usually under cover.


Major Ted Macey demonstrated weapons to Turkish Cypriots
Evidence has emerged that British undercover forces were involved in fomenting the conflict between Greek and Turkish Cypriots ten years before the 1974 partition of Cyprus.

Ted Macey, a British army major who was abducted, presumed killed by Greek Cypriot paramilitaries.

I had no strong expectation that we would find the Turkish Cypriot village. We had a 40-year-old British army map, bearing only the old Greek names. Our guide, Martin Packard, had not been here for decades. The countryside was deserted, no one spoke English, and night had fallen.

In 1964, Martin was a naval intelligence officer, sent to Cyprus to do an extraordinary job. Fighting had broken out in the capital, Nicosia, between Greeks and Turks.

Unrest spread, and the British troops in Cyprus stepped in to keep the peace. But the British General, Peter Young, thought that peace meant more than keeping the two sides apart. He believed the communities could live side by side, sometimes in mixed villages, as they had for centuries.

But that meant small disputes had to be prevented from turning into big ones. Gen Young appointed Martin, a fluent Greek speaker, as a roving trouble-shooter and negotiator. With two officers from the mainland Greek and Turkish armies, he roamed the north of Cyprus by helicopter, settling disputes.

Diplomacy

We eventually found the village, and even an interpreter. Here, in Easter 1964, Martin had resolved a conflict over a flock of sheep, stolen from the Turkish villages by their Greek Cypriots neighbours. Martin tracked down the flock in a Greek village.

But none of the Turkish Cypriots were prepared to come with him to get them. So he went himself. He took the youngest lamb and flung it across his shoulder. The mother followed, and so did the rest of the flock.

It is my feeling they wanted to have fighting between the two sides. They didn't want us to get together

Nicos Koshis

"I walked a very long way, I was very tired, leading this flock of sheep," he said. "We arrived at the village and all of the villagers rushed out as if I were Moses coming back with some great message."

The old men of the village remembered the incident, but were not conspicuously grateful. It was a good thing Martin had got their sheep back, they said, grudgingly, because otherwise they were planning to steal a Greek flock in retaliation.

Martin believes such small episodes were the key to preventing the island drifting towards ethnic separation. But, he says, this was not what the Americans and British had in mind.

He recalls being asked to take a visiting US politician, acting secretary of state George Ball, around the island. Arriving back in Nicosia, says Martin, "Ball patted me on the back, as though I were sadly deluded and he said: That was a fantastic show son, but you've got it all wrong, hasn't anyone told you that our plan here is for partition?"


The division that followed - and still exists - caused pain for both sides
Undaunted, Martin pursued plans to move Turkish Cypriots back to the villages they had fled. But just as the first resettlement was about to take place, British General Michael Carver had him arrested and flown off the island - in an unmarked CIA plane.

The ostensible reason was that Cyprus had become too dangerous for Martin to operate in; the evidence given was that a British liaison officer, Major Ted Macey, had been abducted and presumed murdered just a few days before.

All the evidence points to the murder having been carried out by Greek Cypriot extremists.

In the Public Record Office in London, I found files showing that British military commanders in Cyprus had received "very reliable information" that Major Macey's abduction was planned "by Greek security forces with approval of high government circles and connivance of the police to extract information about Turkish invasion plans".

The Greek Cypriots were convinced that Major Macey was aiding the Turks.

Listening bases

Could it be true? I spoke to a former Para who accompanied Major Macey on expeditions to Turkish Cypriot villages. There, says the Para, he demonstrated the use of British ammunition and sub-machine guns to the Turkish Cypriot irregular forces.

I also tracked down one of Major Macey's former drivers, who showed me a curious note, in the major's handwriting. It is a list of arms and explosives being stored in civilian premises in Nicosia: arms, says the driver, which Major Macey had supplied, under British orders, to the Turkish fighters.

So did the peacekeeping forces, and the big powers, really want Cyprus to remain an independent, unitary state? Or was it more important to head off the threat of a "Mediterranean Cuba" by keeping the island within Turkey's - and hence Nato's - sphere of influence?

Britain had, and has, electronic listening bases on the island - important parts of the Nato intelligence effort.

Nicos Koshis, a former justice minister, thinks that it was those bases that determined the fate of the island: "It is my feeling they wanted to have fighting between the two sides. They didn't want us to get together. If the communities come together maybe in the future we say no bases in Cyprus." 8)
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:38 pm

A nine and half year old article from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4632080.stm

Cyprus is today divided because Cypriots sought a post colonial Cyprus based not on their commonalities as Cypriots regardless of their ethnic background but ones based on their differences that were mutualy exclusive as such and proved all to willing to use illegal violence and murder against entirely innocent Cypriots in the pursuit of these goals. Cypriots intimidated and murdered Cypriots of their own communities that advocated creating a united Cyprus. Cypriots killed and murdered innocent Cypriots for no other reasons that they were from the 'other' community. No group is more responsible by their choices, their actions and their lack of actions, for the division we have today in Cyprus than Cypriots. One of the many commonalities that many GC and TC share is the tendency to instinctively seek to blame everyone and anyone but themselves for everything and anything.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:48 pm

Thank-You Erolz.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:49 pm

Garavnoss wrote:Some evidence that the division of Cyprus was cynically engineered by the UK & US to serve their strategic interests.



Context: Extract from the letter of Head of Southern European Department, Sir Reginald Louis Secondé to the High Commissioner to Cyprus, Peter Ramsbotham.

We have been through the 1963 papers, which tend to confirm that the Thirteen Points were indeed framed with British help and encouragement; that the then High Commissioner [Clark] considered them to be reasonable proposals; and our intention was to promote their acceptance by the Turks.
Source: Mallinson
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:50 pm

Why is Turkey here?

"...the Treaty of Lausanne forbade Turkey from involvement in former Ottoman territories. The British government's motive, as we shall see from the documents*, was simply to divide Greece and Turkey, and Greek and Turkish Cypriots, to facilitate its continuing hold on Cyprus".

"Britain and Cyprus", W. Mallinson, p.5
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:51 pm

...thank-you Garavnos

...thank you GIG
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby Lordo » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:57 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Why is Turkey here?

"...the Treaty of Lausanne forbade Turkey from involvement in former Ottoman territories. The British government's motive, as we shall see from the documents*, was simply to divide Greece and Turkey, and Greek and Turkish Cypriots, to facilitate its continuing hold on Cyprus".

"Britain and Cyprus", W. Mallinson, p.5


there is an old terggish proverb.

"sudan gelen selle gider" by l lordo

translated - you will lose what you have stolen.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby Jerry » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:01 pm

erolz66 wrote:A nine and half year old article from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4632080.stm

Cyprus is today divided because Cypriots sought a post colonial Cyprus based not on their commonalities as Cypriots regardless of their ethnic background but ones based on their differences that were mutual exclusive as such and proved all to willing to use illegal violence and murder against entirely innocent Cypriots in the pursuit of these goals. Cypriots intimidated and murdered Cypriots of their own communities that advocated creating a united Cyprus. Cypriots killed and murdered innocent Cypriots for no other reasons that they were from the 'other' community. No group is more responsible by their choices, their actions and their lack of actions, for the division we have today in Cyprus than Cypriots. One of the many commonalities that many GC and TC share is the tendency to instinctively seek to blame everyone and anyone but themselves for everything and anything.


That may be so but other powers had their own vision for the future of Cyprus. Instead of banging heads together and facilitating cooperation between the communities they exploited the differences. The Constitution was the most complex ever devised by the departing colonial power, it was almost bound to fail. Makarios was told to sign or face partition; one has to ask why the same ultimatum wasn't made a few years earlier when home rule was on offer.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby erolz66 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:23 pm

Jerry wrote: That may be so but other powers had their own vision for the future of Cyprus. Instead of banging heads together and facilitating cooperation between the communities they exploited the differences. The Constitution was the most complex ever devised by the departing colonial power, it was almost bound to fail. Makarios was told to sign or face partition; one has to ask why the same ultimatum wasn't made a few years earlier when home rule was on offer.


Oh those nasty cynical world powers. They were only able to exploit our differences because we CHOSE to place those differences ahead of our commonalities and kill each in the name of those differences . They are only able to keep exploiting our differences for their own ends because we CHOOSE to place them ahead of our commonalities. I think we have to take our share of blame, the lions share, for choosing to do this. We could of chosen a post colonial future for Cyprus that was not based on if you were GC or TC but regardless of that but we CHOSE not to do that. Having chosen not to do that, having killed those in our own communities who advocated doing that, having killed innocents of each other for no other reason than they were GC or TC, to now wail and bemoan and berate those 'others' who exploited our differences for their own ends and make out THEY are responsible for the state Cyprus is in today is to me a pathetic attempt to try and absolve us of OUR responsibility.
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Re: Cynical Engineering.

Postby Cap » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:51 pm

Lordo wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Why is Turkey here?

"...the Treaty of Lausanne forbade Turkey from involvement in former Ottoman territories. The British government's motive, as we shall see from the documents*, was simply to divide Greece and Turkey, and Greek and Turkish Cypriots, to facilitate its continuing hold on Cyprus".

"Britain and Cyprus", W. Mallinson, p.5


there is an old terggish proverb.

"sudan gelen selle gider" by l lordo

translated - you will lose what you have stolen.


Does that mean a free Cyprus?
Sweet. :lol:
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