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Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby Paphitis » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:52 am

Paphitis:
Cameron is under no obligation under any regulations that I know of to report the Thompson Incident to the Russians.


Robin Hood wrote:Really? So if it had been a British tourist flight that had been bought down, then it transpired that a Russian flight had been ‘attacked’ two months before and Putin decided not to tell anyone ...... you would have been OK with that?


It's a major media/Pootin beat up over nothing.

The incident was reported as per the UK CAA regulations and it was reported to the CAA and ATSB. It's not possible for it to not be reported. The Egyptian and UK Regulators have investigated the matter and the conclusion from the Egyptian Regulator is that it was an Egyptian Exercise misfire. It was deemed accidental and not a deliberate targeting of a civil airliner.

Robin Hood wrote:My arse! You would have been at Putin’s throat for being at least criminally irresponsible if not just a murdering bastard. This is what Cameron did when he kept mum and, not only that, he put the lives of thousands of other UK tourists at risk as well as Russian tourists.


If the incident were not reported then yes, Russia would have contravened it's own ICAO Regulations.

All these steps were completed by Thompson and the conclusion was that it was a military projectile from a nearby Egyptian Military Exercise. It was not a missile and it would be unlikely that the airliner would escape if it was some kind of MANPAD.


Robin Hood wrote:Again apply a bit of common sense! A military exercise using ‘missiles’ on the approach glide path to an airport that, whilst quite small airfield, had a large volume of civilian traffic? Sorry, that is just not plausible.


There was no exercise under the Approach Path. The exercise was some distance away and the Egyptian Military misfired a projectile towards the aircraft which may have not been known to them because the Thompson Flight was a Charter and not a scheduled RPT.

It is extremely plausible, and what you might deem as reasonable in the UK or Cyprus might not be the general rule in Egypt although the Egyptians do issue NOTAMs and restrict airspace whenever they conduct live fire exercises but sometimes the system does break down even in Western Countries let alone Egypt.

Robin Hood wrote:The ‘missile’ comment I agree with, people will automatically think ‘guided missile’ ...... but an anti-tank rocket( 'unguided missile’ ..... low speed proportionally[/i]) fired at an aircraft at that height and speed certainly had a possibility that it would strike its target.


It was not a missile, If it was, the aircraft would not have survived in all likelihood.

In addition, the evasive manoeuvres was merely a turn away from the projectile. It was not actually evasive emergency manoeurving. If it was, none of the passengers would have been happy about it, and many of them would have reported it to the media by phone and SMS after some of them had finished spewing their lunch.

The British Government did what they had to do under law.


Robin Hood wrote:Sorry, that is bullshit! What law says you must not tell if a civilian airliner is aimed at, even though it missed?


Oh yes, so the Egyptian/British investigation is bullshit is it?

As I told you, the incident was reported and the reports are publicly available. The incident was reported through the correct channels, and that is all that is necessary.

Also, the International Community, the British Government, Dutch Government, German Government, Australian Government, and Malaysian Government still await for Pootin's (The mans name is Putin ..... you do not have to mimic the Yanks ignorance and disrespect!) full cooperation on the downing of MH17 that was bought down by a BUK Missile.


Robin Hood wrote:You are quick to present the law as a defence. The law also says innocent UNTIL proven guilty and the ones that have the evidence to prove Putin's 'guilt', if their accusations are true on the downing of MH17, are the US and Ukraine Governments respectively.


The Dutch investigators have presented their report and even have BUK Missile fragments. The report is pretty conclusive.

Robin Hood wrote:Now ask yourself .... why did Cameron keep his mouth shut when a simple phone call to the Whitehouse/Kremlin would have been a sensible response? CUI BONO? He managed to contact the Whitehouse and pass on the intelligence ............ but not the Kremlin? Maybe Putin was engaged and Cameron forgot to call again or leave a message? :roll:


In all likelihood, the White House and Pentagon would have told Cameron to take a hike. They would have told him to follow ICAO Reporting and that the incident occurred in Egypt and that they are not responsible or obliged to act. What else do you want them to say?

There was no intelligence to pass on. The entire incident was an Egyptian Military stuff up. And btw, the Russian Jet was not shot down by any missile either. Early days, but it is likely that the report will indicate a bomb on board the aircraft.

Robin Hood wrote:Hmmmmm ..... was he told to keep his mouth shut? I would guess that there are few US citizens flying into Sharm ............. most of the flights carry Russians, could it not be that a few dead Russians would only affect Russia? The CIA did this before (successfully) on a Cuban flight (can’t remember the details) the mastermind was identified as an anti-Castro Cuban and the CIA. He fled to Miami with the assistance of the CIA before he could be put on trial. He was and is still is protected by the CIA! (surprise, surprise). So the US (CIA) has form on this sort of escapade.


Mmmmmm... i don't think so. The Brits don't operate this way and take Aviation Safety and security very seriously no matter what the ethnicity of the aircraft or passengers.

It's a stupid tabloid beat up, and Pootin is just trying to score political points and even try to blame the accident on Western Countries because of MH17. He is a sick bastard.

Robin Hood wrote:You should try apply reason instead of just hatred for Putin ......... you might then come to a more reasoned conclusion! :roll: :wink:


You should do your research and look for the report before you start pointing fingers at Cameron who has done NOTHING wrong.
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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:16 am

Get Real! wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:My ‘pea’ is obviously bigger than your ‘pea’! :wink:

Ok, I guess fitting missile detecting instruments and quick fighter-jet maneuverability for missile avoidance are optional extras of the airbus. :lol:


You jest? .... or you have just proved me correct! :) :wink:

You're wasting our time with bollocks.


Yes, waste of my time as your bollocks are clearly where your brains are located! :roll:
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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:03 am

Robin Hood wrote:No wonder Putin was pissed off with Cameron during his telephone conversation yesterday ...... "The Department for Transport confirmed the Thomson near-miss incident took place on August 23 – just two months before the Metrojet plane crash."

A British holiday jet avoids a missile attack at Sharm and they didn’t bother to inform anybody else!!!!!!!! :x :x :x

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-jet.html#ixzz3qmSLs3VV


Cameron is such bad news for Britain. He is in bed with the worst of mankind for the sake of his corporate friends. The newspapers are afraid to publish anything until some external force has first exposed the lies of this government.

Sadly, the blood of those Russian passengers is in the hands of British 'Intelligence'.

Labour needs to wake up, unite and take this lot on!
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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby Paphitis » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:50 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:No wonder Putin was pissed off with Cameron during his telephone conversation yesterday ...... "The Department for Transport confirmed the Thomson near-miss incident took place on August 23 – just two months before the Metrojet plane crash."

A British holiday jet avoids a missile attack at Sharm and they didn’t bother to inform anybody else!!!!!!!! :x :x :x

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-jet.html#ixzz3qmSLs3VV


Cameron is such bad news for Britain. He is in bed with the worst of mankind for the sake of his corporate friends. The newspapers are afraid to publish anything until some external force has first exposed the lies of this government.

Sadly, the blood of those Russian passengers is in the hands of British 'Intelligence'.

Labour needs to wake up, unite and take this lot on!


Sorry, but neither British Intelligence nor Cameron are responsible for the alleged terrorist attack on the Russian Aircraft.

There was no British Intelligence about possible terrorism against Commercial Airliners in Egypt and even if there was, Britain is under no obligation to share it with Russia just like they would not share anything with us. You would also think that Britain would cancel its own flights if there was and that didn't happen, so no one really knows what Pootin is on about which is the usual case.

And the British Press is one of the most brazen and afraid of nothing let alone Cameron. The British Press ranges from the trashy tabloids to the very good broadsheets, and are not afraid to give it to Cameron or anyone else. That is what you call a 'free press'. Maybe Russia should try it.

Pootin can start behaving like a good International Citizen and start cooperating with many Governments around the world who have lost citizens from the downing of MH17, but unfortunately that did not happen, and that has damaged Russia's standing so there is no use trying to get on his high horse because most of us find it ridiculous.
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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby Paphitis » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:12 am

And let's be frank, the only British intelligence that was available was an intercept from ISIL that "something big was going to happen".

How British Intelligence was suppose to know that this meant that a an Airliner will be downed in Egypt God only knows. Can you imagine the Brits telling the Americans or Russians "that something big is about to happen"? I mean seriously people.

After the fact, some more intercepts indicated ISIL 'celebrations' over the success of their attack against the Russian Aircraft.

There was nothing British Intelligence can do. Fact is, a Russian Aircraft was downed possibly due to a bomb.

If the Russians and Egyptians want help with the investigation, then all they have to do is ask for help from America and Britain. I am sure if they ask, the Brits and Americans will do everything possible to help. But the Russians and Egyptians have to ask, because the catastrophe did not occur in a British or American Jurisdiction and the aircraft involved was not British or American Registered which means that only Russia and Egypt must investigate but as I said, there is nothing to stop them from asking for assistance.

The Americans and Brits would even be keen to offer assistance, but it's a matter of jurisdiction under International Air Law.

END OF!
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Re: Russian airliner crash ... it almost happened before!

Postby Lordo » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:52 pm

Paphitis wrote:Paphitis:
Cameron is under no obligation under any regulations that I know of to report the Thompson Incident to the Russians.


Robin Hood wrote:Really? So if it had been a British tourist flight that had been bought down, then it transpired that a Russian flight had been ‘attacked’ two months before and Putin decided not to tell anyone ...... you would have been OK with that?


It's a major media/Pootin beat up over nothing.

The incident was reported as per the UK CAA regulations and it was reported to the CAA and ATSB. It's not possible for it to not be reported. The Egyptian and UK Regulators have investigated the matter and the conclusion from the Egyptian Regulator is that it was an Egyptian Exercise misfire. It was deemed accidental and not a deliberate targeting of a civil airliner.

Robin Hood wrote:My arse! You would have been at Putin’s throat for being at least criminally irresponsible if not just a murdering bastard. This is what Cameron did when he kept mum and, not only that, he put the lives of thousands of other UK tourists at risk as well as Russian tourists.


If the incident were not reported then yes, Russia would have contravened it's own ICAO Regulations.

All these steps were completed by Thompson and the conclusion was that it was a military projectile from a nearby Egyptian Military Exercise. It was not a missile and it would be unlikely that the airliner would escape if it was some kind of MANPAD.


Robin Hood wrote:Again apply a bit of common sense! A military exercise using ‘missiles’ on the approach glide path to an airport that, whilst quite small airfield, had a large volume of civilian traffic? Sorry, that is just not plausible.


There was no exercise under the Approach Path. The exercise was some distance away and the Egyptian Military misfired a projectile towards the aircraft which may have not been known to them because the Thompson Flight was a Charter and not a scheduled RPT.

It is extremely plausible, and what you might deem as reasonable in the UK or Cyprus might not be the general rule in Egypt although the Egyptians do issue NOTAMs and restrict airspace whenever they conduct live fire exercises but sometimes the system does break down even in Western Countries let alone Egypt.

Robin Hood wrote:The ‘missile’ comment I agree with, people will automatically think ‘guided missile’ ...... but an anti-tank rocket( 'unguided missile’ ..... low speed proportionally[/i]) fired at an aircraft at that height and speed certainly had a possibility that it would strike its target.


It was not a missile, If it was, the aircraft would not have survived in all likelihood.

In addition, the evasive manoeuvres was merely a turn away from the projectile. It was not actually evasive emergency manoeurving. If it was, none of the passengers would have been happy about it, and many of them would have reported it to the media by phone and SMS after some of them had finished spewing their lunch.

The British Government did what they had to do under law.


Robin Hood wrote:Sorry, that is bullshit! What law says you must not tell if a civilian airliner is aimed at, even though it missed?


Oh yes, so the Egyptian/British investigation is bullshit is it?

As I told you, the incident was reported and the reports are publicly available. The incident was reported through the correct channels, and that is all that is necessary.

Also, the International Community, the British Government, Dutch Government, German Government, Australian Government, and Malaysian Government still await for Pootin's (The mans name is Putin ..... you do not have to mimic the Yanks ignorance and disrespect!) full cooperation on the downing of MH17 that was bought down by a BUK Missile.


Robin Hood wrote:You are quick to present the law as a defence. The law also says innocent UNTIL proven guilty and the ones that have the evidence to prove Putin's 'guilt', if their accusations are true on the downing of MH17, are the US and Ukraine Governments respectively.


The Dutch investigators have presented their report and even have BUK Missile fragments. The report is pretty conclusive.

Robin Hood wrote:Now ask yourself .... why did Cameron keep his mouth shut when a simple phone call to the Whitehouse/Kremlin would have been a sensible response? CUI BONO? He managed to contact the Whitehouse and pass on the intelligence ............ but not the Kremlin? Maybe Putin was engaged and Cameron forgot to call again or leave a message? :roll:


In all likelihood, the White House and Pentagon would have told Cameron to take a hike. They would have told him to follow ICAO Reporting and that the incident occurred in Egypt and that they are not responsible or obliged to act. What else do you want them to say?

There was no intelligence to pass on. The entire incident was an Egyptian Military stuff up. And btw, the Russian Jet was not shot down by any missile either. Early days, but it is likely that the report will indicate a bomb on board the aircraft.

Robin Hood wrote:Hmmmmm ..... was he told to keep his mouth shut? I would guess that there are few US citizens flying into Sharm ............. most of the flights carry Russians, could it not be that a few dead Russians would only affect Russia? The CIA did this before (successfully) on a Cuban flight (can’t remember the details) the mastermind was identified as an anti-Castro Cuban and the CIA. He fled to Miami with the assistance of the CIA before he could be put on trial. He was and is still is protected by the CIA! (surprise, surprise). So the US (CIA) has form on this sort of escapade.


Mmmmmm... i don't think so. The Brits don't operate this way and take Aviation Safety and security very seriously no matter what the ethnicity of the aircraft or passengers.

It's a stupid tabloid beat up, and Pootin is just trying to score political points and even try to blame the accident on Western Countries because of MH17. He is a sick bastard.

Robin Hood wrote:You should try apply reason instead of just hatred for Putin ......... you might then come to a more reasoned conclusion! :roll: :wink:


You should do your research and look for the report before you start pointing fingers at Cameron who has done NOTHING wrong.

you what cameron has done nothing wrong you say. you clearly dont have a clue about him. never mind the political wrongs he has done. what about the damage him and his rich buddies did to the bullingdon club and daddy had to pay for or even poking his dick into the mouth of a dead pig. you call that nothing wrong. you is just too stupid.
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