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Peace at what cost!

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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby erolz66 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:58 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:a)Actually it's the collapse of real estate values in the USA that triggered the International crisis.


There will always be short term ups and downs in land value but I still maintain that medium and long term the trend is inexorably upwards. Yes a collapse of real estate prices in the USA was the trigger for the following crisis but the reason it was so widespread was the way debt on houses were packed up into instruments like CDO's and resold as commodities, itself leading to massive over lending to people who just could not sustain such debt burdens. My understanding is that today real estate prices are close to the pre 08 highs and IO would certainly be happy to take an evens bet with you that in another 10 years from now they will be higher than those previous highs.

Pyrpolizer wrote:Prices in the free areas already dropped dramatically, they will drop more after a solution. I expect prices in the occupied to rise though.
It's a matter of supply and demand. Gone are the days land kept it's value relative to inflation.


So you predict post solution a large glut of available properties for sale in the South, with few buyers wanting them and the reverse in the North, few properties available for sale and large number of buyers wanting such properties ? Personally I suspect there would be an increase in property prices across the board in Cyprus post solution, less in the South maybe. The again its only a guess and I could be completely wrong.

Pyrpolizer wrote:b)What I was always proposing is anyone to do as he pleases anytime he pleases. However I will not accept any property committee forcing me to exchange today/or get compensated today at today's value when I know the current value of my property is going to double in one year


Well its far from clear how such a PC would work but it seems to me within the realm of possibility that you could indeed choose when to seek a claim via such a body and choose to wait if that was your choice,

Pyrpolizer wrote:c)You said it yourself: "In some cases it will be the owner who is obliged to take an option that is not their preferred choice" One of those cases could be to FORCE him take compensation against his will.
Imo no such authority should be given to any property committee (pC)instead the pC should act as a proposer and in case her proposals are not accepted, then to issue 2 separate title deeds one for the land to the owner of the land, and another for the building to the owner of the building and just set annual rents according to going market value.


Would the fact that you owned land with a building on it owned by someone else not severely reduce the value of that land vs if it had no building on it or had a building on it that you also owned ? You would be happy to have lost land that was 'empty' and get back in return land that had a building on it legally owned by someone else, so that the only income you could get from that land was ground rent (and thus the reslae value of it was also reduced) ? Or have I missed something ?

Pyrpolizer wrote:d)It should be raining money, otherwise there is no way for the TCs who left behind 1/5th of properties donum-to donum, each one worth 1/4 on the average the properties they got, to ever break even. As for the settlers...


I am not sure I accept your figures that the value of the properties left behind by TC in the South is 1/4 of the value of those lost by GC in the North to be honest. I think there is a shortfall but I do not think it is 75%.

Pyrpolizer wrote:Did you say you bought "disputed" property for 100K?


Actually the 100k figure was just used in an example (because it was a round figure and made % from it easy). I have bought property in that region in the north (some what over 100k) and it is comprised of land that was GC pre 74 or is GC if you prefer.

Pyrpolizer wrote:Surely the true owner of that property won't care how much you paid to anyone.


Nor do I expect him to care. I do expect him to consider fair compensation for that land in monetary form or in equivalent property however vs the current status quo. The land my house that I bought is on was empty bare land pre 74. I bought the land and house from someone who in turn bought the land from a TC that had exchange with the TRNC land they had in the South for this land. Somewhere then there is some value in land in the South that 'relates' to the land my house in on. In a scenario where the GC owner of the land my house is on accepts compensation for their loss of it (or is obliged to by a PC) their compensation can be funded from this value of land in the south plus a contribution from me that represents the increase in value the land and house will have as a result of its status changing from disputed to non disputed.

Pyrpolizer wrote:Quite honestly I don't believe your authorities have enough TC properties to exchange to make up for cases like yours,


No they do not have enough purely in exchange properties but they may well have enough in exchange properties plus 30% from me (which I get back in effect as a 30% increase in the value of my property because it will no longer be disputed) plus value in land that is currently 'locked' into things like military bases and the like that would be freed up post a solution. I think when all these things are added up it may well be that the authorities will have enough or if they do not any shortfall would be within achievable means of making good.

Pyrpolizer wrote: btw how's your case different to that of any carpetbagger??


I have not said it is have I ? I do not see how any settlement could treat Cypriot citizens differently re property than non citizens. Any agreement would have to treat what you refer to as 'carpetbaggers' the same as anyone else in regards to property settlement , at least as far as I see things.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Sotos » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:18 pm

erolz66 wrote:For me it seems a perfectly reasonable proposal and I say that as a 'current user' of disputed land in the north.


What is "disputed land" supposed to mean in this case? If I claim that everything you think you own actually belongs to me, would that make everything you own "disputed" and would somehow give me rights over those things? In most cases things are clear: The owner is the one who has the official title deed and only the state (the real one) has a right to force an individual to give up his land via expropriation... and even then it has to be done carefully and not willy-nilly, otherwise it is a human right violation. If, as part of the solution, we come to specific arrangements that would transfer the ownership from one person to another is a different story. If the ownership of that land was truly disputed then the way to remove that dispute would be to go to a court with the other person who claims that land as his, and each of you would show the evidence on how that land belongs to you and the court would solve the dispute based on the evidence.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Lordo » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:45 am

i dont quite know if you boys realised but cyprus has not been a normal country since december 1963. i know it will come as a bit of a shock to you but normal rules no longer apply. we shall have either two zones or two states and land will have to be exchanged. i know it is not fair but it has not been fair for 53 years. i do realise that some of you boys were not aware of the real situation but it is time to wake up from your slumber. you have bee asleep for 53 years. enough is enough you don't need to sleep no more.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Sotos » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:45 am

You have been making it unfair to us for centuries. Seems like there will be no fairness in Cyprus as long as you are here.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby miltiades » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:22 am

Good morning Deniz
Have only just noticed you are back and a big welcome from me mate.
Came back on sunday after 8 days on paradise island, this time i went on my own so i spent all my time with the kids.
Hope we can soon meet up.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Lordo » Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:08 am

Sotos wrote:You have been making it unfair to us for centuries. Seems like there will be no fairness in Cyprus as long as you are here.

of course the opposite is also true. once you swine decide to piss off to greace we shall have peace and fairness too.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Sotos » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:38 am

Lordo wrote:
Sotos wrote:You have been making it unfair to us for centuries. Seems like there will be no fairness in Cyprus as long as you are here.

of course the opposite is also true. once you swine decide to piss off to greace we shall have peace and fairness too.


We are the native people of Cyprus and therefore the only fair thing is for you to piss off, since it is you who are creating the problem to us since you invaded us.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Garavnoss » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:52 am

The only peace...... is in the grave.......as far as we know that is. :lol:
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby erolz66 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:59 am

Sotos wrote: We are the native people of Cyprus and therefore the only fair thing is for you to piss off,


More like, as far as you are Greek, we invaded first

Sotos wrote:since it is you who are creating the problem to us since you invaded us.


since we managed to wipe out entirely the native languages and cultures of those Cypriots who were here before the arrival of Greek language and culture and people in Cyprus.
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Re: Peace at what cost!

Postby Get Real! » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:18 am

Sotos wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Sotos wrote:You have been making it unfair to us for centuries. Seems like there will be no fairness in Cyprus as long as you are here.

of course the opposite is also true. once you swine decide to piss off to greace we shall have peace and fairness too.


We are the native people of Cyprus and therefore the only fair thing is for you to piss off, since it is you who are creating the problem to us since you invaded us.

It seems you want to switch between native and colonizer as you please in your arguments but unfortunately you can’t be both!

If your ancestors arrived here at around 1000BC or thereabouts as you often claim, then you are NOT native Cypriot... your claims are contradictory.
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