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Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby Kikapu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:25 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
From the fake radio transmissions that Turkey put out, supposedly made by the Turkish pilot, was just sending out warnings to thin air and not to any craft(s) in particular. They did not even give out the ordinates of the jets they were trying to contact. How could that be? If you are the Russian pilot and many Russian planes were in the sky in these areas and even if they heard this message and that they were in Syrian territory, why would they even respond? Wouldn't they give away their positions to some unconfirmed radio transmission? Why was it that the Turkish pilot who was sending radio messages and not the ground command? Surely the ground command had a better picture of what's going on in their airspace than the Turkish Jets, who were nowhere near the Russian Jets. No, I do believe the Russians when they claim that the Turkish Jets were waiting for the Russian planes to shoot one or two down in an ambush, hence Putin's statement that "they were stabbed in the back" by Turkey. Turkey will pay the price for this illegal act, specially when no one in Turkey were under any threat from this Russian Jet. Turkey can expect to have their jets shot down from here on by the Russians if any are a threat to the Russian Jets, regardless even if they are just inside their own Turkish territory along the Syrian border. Russians will too say that the Turkish jets crossed the Syrian border for 1 second, is when the trigger was pulled. Two can play that shitty game..


That could mean that the Russian Aircraft was not on the ADIZ Frequency which the TAF would have NOTAMed. Usually its the the aircraft intercepting that will attempt contact with the infringing aircraft. And there could have been only 1 aircraft in the area at the time.

Not responding to the initial warnings is not the fault or problem of the TAF.

Once again, it is not an illegal act, but if Pootin thinks otherwise, he is able to take it up with ICAO at the UN, and Security Council. Fat good that will do though.


Usually its the the aircraft intercepting that will attempt contact with the infringing aircraft.


Paphitis, now you are contradicting Erdogan when he said he did not know it was a Russian Jet that they shot down.

In order for the intercepting aircraft to communicate with the intruding aircraft, and ultimately shooting it down, the intercepting aircraft had to be very close to the intruding aircraft to have a visual contact, or else, how would the intercepting aircraft know where the intruding aircraft is in relation to where he is. The only way the intercepting aircraft would know anything about the intruding aircraft on it's radar initially, is if they were heading towards each other and almost at the same altitude, no? The other possibility is of course, that the intercepting aircraft was behind the intruding aircraft, if not visually, at least on radar to be able to get a "lock" on the intruding aircraft. So the question is, why would the intercepting aircraft shoot at something he does not see except on radar and has not had any radio communication with?. It could have been a civilian aircraft for all the intercepting aircraft knew. Surely you do not agree with shooting at a passenger airliner who might have drifted close to the Turkish airspace, do you?

The Turkish ground command center had to have played a big part to position the intercepting aircraft to come up behind the intruding aircraft in order to get a "lock" on it. This further add credence to the Russian Jet being ambushed and shot down deliberately. I can assure you all this did not happen in the 17 seconds the Turks claimed the Russian jet was in it's airspace. Turkey also knew that they could get their jets very close to the Russian Jet because it was no threat to Turkish Jets, since the Russian Jet had no reason to be armed with air to air missiles and it was not. They are now and the Russians won't trust the Turks any longer to get "stabbed in the back" again.

You as an aviation man must see what Turkey did was completely wrong in what they did to the Russian jet, even if it was in it's airspace for 17 seconds. The Turks did not follow correct procedures and then over reacted with incompetence, and I can't believe that the Turks are that incompetent, so once again, it all point to deliberate act of ambush by the Turks. The most the Russian Jet could have traveled was about 3 nautical miles over Turkish territory at 600 knots, and since it was shot down over Syrian territory, the Russian jet had already left the Turkish airspace. In my opinion, what ever Russia does to Turkey from here on, Turkey had earned it with the unjustifiable shooting down of the Russian jet. Every action has a reaction. Putin will make Turkey pay in his own way. This has now become personal with him and he will want to kick Erdogan's ass all the way back to Mongolia.
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby Paphitis » Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:29 am

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
From the fake radio transmissions that Turkey put out, supposedly made by the Turkish pilot, was just sending out warnings to thin air and not to any craft(s) in particular. They did not even give out the ordinates of the jets they were trying to contact. How could that be? If you are the Russian pilot and many Russian planes were in the sky in these areas and even if they heard this message and that they were in Syrian territory, why would they even respond? Wouldn't they give away their positions to some unconfirmed radio transmission? Why was it that the Turkish pilot who was sending radio messages and not the ground command? Surely the ground command had a better picture of what's going on in their airspace than the Turkish Jets, who were nowhere near the Russian Jets. No, I do believe the Russians when they claim that the Turkish Jets were waiting for the Russian planes to shoot one or two down in an ambush, hence Putin's statement that "they were stabbed in the back" by Turkey. Turkey will pay the price for this illegal act, specially when no one in Turkey were under any threat from this Russian Jet. Turkey can expect to have their jets shot down from here on by the Russians if any are a threat to the Russian Jets, regardless even if they are just inside their own Turkish territory along the Syrian border. Russians will too say that the Turkish jets crossed the Syrian border for 1 second, is when the trigger was pulled. Two can play that shitty game..


That could mean that the Russian Aircraft was not on the ADIZ Frequency which the TAF would have NOTAMed. Usually its the the aircraft intercepting that will attempt contact with the infringing aircraft. And there could have been only 1 aircraft in the area at the time.

Not responding to the initial warnings is not the fault or problem of the TAF.

Once again, it is not an illegal act, but if Pootin thinks otherwise, he is able to take it up with ICAO at the UN, and Security Council. Fat good that will do though.


Usually its the the aircraft intercepting that will attempt contact with the infringing aircraft.


Paphitis, now you are contradicting Erdogan when he said he did not know it was a Russian Jet that they shot down.

In order for the intercepting aircraft to communicate with the intruding aircraft, and ultimately shooting it down, the intercepting aircraft had to be very close to the intruding aircraft to have a visual contact, or else, how would the intercepting aircraft know where the intruding aircraft is in relation to where he is. The only way the intercepting aircraft would know anything about the intruding aircraft on it's radar initially, is if they were heading towards each other and almost at the same altitude, no? The other possibility is of course, that the intercepting aircraft was behind the intruding aircraft, if not visually, at least on radar to be able to get a "lock" on the intruding aircraft. So the question is, why would the intercepting aircraft shoot at something he does not see except on radar and has not had any radio communication with?. It could have been a civilian aircraft for all the intercepting aircraft knew. Surely you do not agree with shooting at a passenger airliner who might have drifted close to the Turkish airspace, do you?

The Turkish ground command center had to have played a big part to position the intercepting aircraft to come up behind the intruding aircraft in order to get a "lock" on it. This further add credence to the Russian Jet being ambushed and shot down deliberately. I can assure you all this did not happen in the 17 seconds the Turks claimed the Russian jet was in it's airspace. Turkey also knew that they could get their jets very close to the Russian Jet because it was no threat to Turkish Jets, since the Russian Jet had no reason to be armed with air to air missiles and it was not. They are now and the Russians won't trust the Turks any longer to get "stabbed in the back" again.

You as an aviation man must see what Turkey did was completely wrong in what they did to the Russian jet, even if it was in it's airspace for 17 seconds. The Turks did not follow correct procedures and then over reacted with incompetence, and I can't believe that the Turks are that incompetent, so once again, it all point to deliberate act of ambush by the Turks. The most the Russian Jet could have traveled was about 3 nautical miles over Turkish territory at 600 knots, and since it was shot down over Syrian territory, the Russian jet had already left the Turkish airspace. In my opinion, what ever Russia does to Turkey from here on, Turkey had earned it with the unjustifiable shooting down of the Russian jet. Every action has a reaction. Putin will make Turkey pay in his own way. This has now become personal with him and he will want to kick Erdogan's ass all the way back to Mongolia.


Kikapu, I don't particularly care so believe what you want and that Turkey acted illegally if you want. It's not a problem.

But, there is a big variation between what we believe, what we hope is the case and the facts and the facts all point towards a very legal interception of an aircraft that violated Turkish Airspace. I don't want to say anything about who detected who on their radar, what contact was made or where the aircraft was shot down because I know most of the information you talk about is rubbish and both countries will only tell you what they want you to hear and believe.

All I know is that the Russians violated Turkish Airspace, and have done this many times before, and now they paid the price for it. And no, Turkey has done nothing wrong here. It was all in its own back yard. It is free to assign an ADIZ wherever it likes on its border. Countries often do up to 400kms outside their airspace when they intercept military aircraft.

I warned everyone that this was bound to happen but everyone thought it was joke. The only joke is not doing anything about the violations, like Greece whenever Turkish Aircraft violate its Airspace. It's counter-productive.

Too bad for Pootin.
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby boomerang » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:47 am

end of the day Erdogan was blackmailed in shooting down the plane...his ass belongs elsewhere now...
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:15 pm

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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby B25 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:21 pm

link does not work
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:54 pm

Sorry.
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby Kikapu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:04 pm

denizaksulu wrote:Sorry.


Radio Sputnik works!
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:10 pm

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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby denizaksulu » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:13 pm



Seems the link is kaput. Sorry.
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Re: Turkey shoots down a Russian jet

Postby B25 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:19 pm

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