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UK REFERENDUM

Everything related to politics in Cyprus and the rest of the world.

SHOULD THE UK STAY IN OR GO OUT OF THE EU

Poll ended at Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:01 pm
Note: Your vote in this poll is NOT confidential. Your username will be displayed under the option(s) you select

STAY IN
5
50%
 
erolz66, miltiades, RichardB, skyvet, Tim Drayton
COME OUT
5
50%
 
GreekIslandGirl, Paphitis, Robin Hood, Sotos, Zenon33
 
Total votes : 10

Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:17 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...

Free movement is only a benefit if you are willing to work in another EU country and Brits are probably the least likely to want to do so.


I think you will find you are wrong on that last point, and it actually happens that there are about the same number of British citizens living and working in other EU countries as there are citizens of other EU countries doing the same in Britain.


Most are just retirees who have moved to Spain, Portugal, Greece, France or Cyprus.

Generally speaking, it is usually Britain that cops it, along with Germany.


To put more precise figures on it:

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.


https://euobserver.com/social/123066

I think you will find that a significant portion of that 2.2 million are working or running businesses. Even here in Cyprus, where many of the permanent British residents are retired, you will find plenty of British people who are working or, like me, running small businesses. Even for retired people, the rights that they gain from being EU citizens in another EU country are valuable. Many retired British people here do some part time work or run businesses. This is a right they would lose if the UK left the EU, as well as the peace of mind that comes from knowing they have an absolute right to remain here.
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:20 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...

Free movement is only a benefit if you are willing to work in another EU country and Brits are probably the least likely to want to do so.


I think you will find you are wrong on that last point, and it actually happens that there are about the same number of British citizens living and working in other EU countries as there are citizens of other EU countries doing the same in Britain.


Most are just retirees who have moved to Spain, Portugal, Greece, France or Cyprus.

Generally speaking, it is usually Britain that cops it, along with Germany.


To put more precise figures on it:

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.


https://euobserver.com/social/123066

I think you will find that a significant portion of that 2.2 million are working or running businesses. Even here in Cyprus, where many of the permanent British residents are retired, you will find plenty of British people who are working or, like me, running small businesses. Even for retired people, the rights that they gain from being EU citizens in another EU country are valuable. Many retired British people here do some part time work or run businesses. This is a right they would lose if the UK left the EU, as well as the peace of mind that comes from knowing they have an absolute right to remain here.


Tim,

I would like a break down out of the 2.2 million living in other EU countries, because most of them I have seen don't seem to work.

I am sure a portion of them do, but not that many. Most seem to be retirees.
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:22 am

Miltiades:
Robin, surely the decision will be made by the British voters on referendum day. Cameron has indeed made the decision, correct in my opinion, to campaign for a stay vote, the business world, banking, insurance, finance, the City are overwhelmingly in favour of staying in, they obviously consider staying in as beneficial to the nation and to their businesses . The British public is hesitant in entering the " unknown and come polling day they will, the majority, vote for a continued membership of the EU.


It will certainly be made to appear so, after all you could hardly expect the bankers to address their threats directly to the British people! They have done so to Cameron and he will do everything to ensure it is an ‘IN’ vote, and that is what I would predict as the outcome.

Fear is a powerful tool! From Cameron and the ‘IN’ supporters are coming all the messages of the dangers ahead if we opt for ‘OUT’. This recent letter from all these Generals was supposed to put the fear of God into the population by saying we needed protection against ISIS and Putin. I’m sorry but I see neither as being a direct threat to the UK. The latter definitely not! As Paphitis pointed out, our military security comes from NATO not the EU and the Generals letter has been called a load of rubbish by those far better informed.

Banking will certainly push for maintaining the status quo, as they will have the most to lose should the UK BRexit.

The British public are lazy, ill informed and will do whatever causes the least upset to their cosy way of life ......... but they will be first in the queue when it comes to complaining when it all goes belly up. They are badly educated when it comes to politics and financial matters, especially banking and currency creation, and get most of their information of what is going on in this World from a quick scan of the headlines of their favourite newspaper, the BBC News/SKY News, East Enders, Coronation Street and of course The Kardashians ! :roll: :cry:
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:33 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...

Free movement is only a benefit if you are willing to work in another EU country and Brits are probably the least likely to want to do so.


I think you will find you are wrong on that last point, and it actually happens that there are about the same number of British citizens living and working in other EU countries as there are citizens of other EU countries doing the same in Britain.


Most are just retirees who have moved to Spain, Portugal, Greece, France or Cyprus.

Generally speaking, it is usually Britain that cops it, along with Germany.


To put more precise figures on it:

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.


https://euobserver.com/social/123066

I think you will find that a significant portion of that 2.2 million are working or running businesses. Even here in Cyprus, where many of the permanent British residents are retired, you will find plenty of British people who are working or, like me, running small businesses. Even for retired people, the rights that they gain from being EU citizens in another EU country are valuable. Many retired British people here do some part time work or run businesses. This is a right they would lose if the UK left the EU, as well as the peace of mind that comes from knowing they have an absolute right to remain here.


Tim,

I would like a break down out of the 2.2 million living in other EU countries, because most of them I have seen don't seem to work.

I am sure a portion of them do, but not that many. Most seem to be retirees.


I am trying to get that answer for you, but in the meantime the following is a point worth pondering:

Unemployed Britons in Europe are drawing much more in benefits and allowances in the wealthier EU countries than their nationals are claiming in the UK, despite the British government’s arguments about migrants flocking in to the country to secure better welfare payments.

At least 30,000 British nationals are claiming unemployment benefit in countries around the EU, research by the Guardian has found, based on responses from 23 of the 27 other EU countries.

...

There are not only far more Britons drawing benefits in these countries than vice versa, but frequently the benefits elsewhere in Europe are much more generous than in the UK. A Briton in France receives more than three times as much as a jobless French person in the UK.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... enefits-eu
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby erolz66 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:44 am

Tim Drayton wrote:I am trying to get that answer for you, but in the meantime the following is a point worth pondering:


Try here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/i ... europe.stm

Select Europe and then the country you want and it will show how many brits are living in that country and how many are pensioners

so for cyprus for example

total - 59,00 - total inc part time - 65,000 pensioners 11,742
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:45 am



Yes but that's from the Guardian. They advocate an "open border policy".

they are also very Anti BREXIT and also anti Nigel Farage and all the other nay sayers.
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Paphitis » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:48 am

erolz66 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:I am trying to get that answer for you, but in the meantime the following is a point worth pondering:


Try here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/i ... europe.stm

Select Europe and then the country you want and it will show how many brits are living in that country and how many are pensioners

so for cyprus for example

total - 59,00 - total inc part time - 65,000 pensioners 11,742


Not so fast.

We will need a proper break down. Such as, these may be those drawing on a State pension. how many are self funded etc?

Those Britz moving to other countries such as Cyprus are more likely to be from the self funded demographic than not.
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:49 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:...

Free movement is only a benefit if you are willing to work in another EU country and Brits are probably the least likely to want to do so.


I think you will find you are wrong on that last point, and it actually happens that there are about the same number of British citizens living and working in other EU countries as there are citizens of other EU countries doing the same in Britain.


Most are just retirees who have moved to Spain, Portugal, Greece, France or Cyprus.

Generally speaking, it is usually Britain that cops it, along with Germany.


To put more precise figures on it:

Compared to the 2.3 million EU citizens in the UK, which includes people who came after Poland and nine other states joined the Union in 2004, British consular authorities estimate that 2.2 million Britons live in the other 26 EU countries, excluding Croatia, which joined in 2013.


https://euobserver.com/social/123066

I think you will find that a significant portion of that 2.2 million are working or running businesses. Even here in Cyprus, where many of the permanent British residents are retired, you will find plenty of British people who are working or, like me, running small businesses. Even for retired people, the rights that they gain from being EU citizens in another EU country are valuable. Many retired British people here do some part time work or run businesses. This is a right they would lose if the UK left the EU, as well as the peace of mind that comes from knowing they have an absolute right to remain here.


Tim,

I would like a break down out of the 2.2 million living in other EU countries, because most of them I have seen don't seem to work.

I am sure a portion of them do, but not that many. Most seem to be retirees.


According to the Financial Times in 2014:

About 1.8m Britons live in Europe, .... Of the Britons living in Europe, 400,000 are claiming a state pension from the UK.


http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5cd640f6 ... z41GVij6lG

That means that 1,800,000 – 400,000 = 1,400,000 were presumably not retired (since the state pension is pretty near universal in the UK) and so were working (or perhaps getting the dole after having worked) in other EU countries. That makes 77% of the total those working rather then retired. I doubt if that proportion has changed too much.

On the other hand, what is so wrong with free movement making it easier for retired people to settle in another EU country? Especially when many of them – and that is my observation here in Cyprus – either want or need to do a bit of part time work or run small businesses – like the retired Welsh couple who run a snack stall at the Saturday open market in Linopetras here in Limassol and who also have Monday to Friday jobs in a real estate company (or at least that was the case last time I was there some years ago).
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby erolz66 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:50 am

Paphitis wrote:
Not so fast.

We will need a proper break down. Such as, these may be those drawing on a State pension. how many are self funded etc?

Those Britz moving to other countries such as Cyprus are more likely to be from the self funded demographic than not.


Hey only trying to help - if you want better / different breakdowns you could always find them yourself you know :)
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Re: UK REFERENDUM

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:52 am

Paphitis wrote:


Yes but that's from the Guardian. They advocate an "open border policy".

they are also very Anti BREXIT and also anti Nigel Farage and all the other nay sayers.


"research by the Guardian has found, based on responses from 23 of the 27 other EU countries." So? It is based on reliable quoted sources.
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