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Greece under EU orders re borders

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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:29 am

repulsewarrior wrote:Sadly it has not provoked the EU's membership to double down on solidarity, ....


Solidarity has to cut both ways. You can not have one member bemoaning a lack of solidarity when it also is clearly failing to meet its agreed obligations and impacting negatively other members as a result. The reason the EU (those within it that truly believe in the 'European Project') are doing everything in their power - both 'carrot' (copious amounts of aid and assistance) and 'stick' (evaluation report concluding serious deficiencies) - to get Greece back in position where it is meeting such obligations and can be seen to be doing so, is exactly because this is the ONLY way they can then present an argument of dealing with this crisis via 'solidarity' and not by 'each to their own'. That is how it seems to me. What is more if they fail in this endeavour to place 'solidarity' at the heart of dealing with the crisis and things revert to 'each to their own' (even more than they are now and continuing forward) then some countries will suffer much more than others as a result, with Greece suffering the most. Greece needs 'solidarity' to be the solution way more than Austria does - thus Greece needs to get to a state where it is not 'seriously deficient' re external borders as per EU evaluations more than any body and I sincerely hope it achieves this and as a result 'solidarity' does re assert itself as the basis of dealing with this crisis. Which is why I think arguments that the EU has not found Greece seriously deficient are not just blatantly incorrect, they are in fact actually dangerous to and for Greece and its own best interests and needs in the medium term.
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:42 am

...frankly, i am glad that the EU has taken an initiative, even if it is late, and not seen as entirely credible. The result, is an immediate change in the way migrants travel. For Greece, there is a possibility to meet its obligations. On the other hand, illegal migrants will not stop coming (to Europe), they may not be in the same numbers or demographics either, they will keep themselves as illegal migrants for longer, and their integration will not have the benefits that welcoming migrants do.
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:58 pm

The next stage in the Road-map is here as according to Phileleftheros the EU is meeting consider the adequacy of the plan on Tuesday:

http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/eidiseis-ellada/45/308129/tin-triti-i-axiologisi-tis-komision-gia-ta-metra-elenchou-ton-synoron

12 April 2016 at the latest: the Commission presents its assessment of the adequacy of the action plan prepared by Greece.


(see http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-585_en.htm)

I hope they assess the plan is adequate.

(Note: this is only considering the adequacy of the plan as designed (i.e should it work?) - NOT as how implemented (ie, did it work?) as the best laid plans can go astray - (I hope not): the success of the measures will not be judged until later

11-17 April 2016: a Schengen evaluation by Commission and Member State experts of air, land and sea borders of Greece will take place.
12 May 2016 at the latest: Greece reports on the implementation of the Council recommendations.
12 May 2016: if the serious deficiencies in external border control were to persist, the Commission will present a proposal under Article 26(2) of the Schengen Borders Code.
13 May 2016: if the serious deficiencies in external border control were to persist, the Council should adopt a recommendation under Article 26(2) of the Schengen Borders Code for a coherent Union approach to temporary internal border controls.


This does however show that contrary to the view of one there is still a threat that action will be taken under Article 26(2) of the Schengen Borders Code. It ain't over yet.

For the avoidance of doubt I do not wish for Greece to fail but only to succeed in dealing with the serious deficiencies in external border control.
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:35 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote: there is still a threat that action will be taken under Article 26(2) of the Schengen Borders Code. It ain't over yet.



Really? And what action would that be?
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:50 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote: there is still a threat that action will be taken under Article 26(2) of the Schengen Borders Code. It ain't over yet.



Really? And what action would that be?
b

Possible Imposition of border controls for travel from Greece to other Schengen states, see article 26 sbc. Thst all lies within the remit of the EU authorities.

Article 26

Specific procedure where exceptional circumstances put the overall functioning of the area without internal border control at risk

1. In exceptional circumstances where the overall functioning of the area without internal border control is put at risk as a result of persistent serious deficiencies relating to external border control as referred to in Article 19a, and insofar as those circumstances constitute a serious threat to public policy or internal security within the area without internal border control or within parts thereof, border control at internal borders may be reintroduced in accordance with paragraph 2 of this Article for a period of up to six months. That period may be prolonged, no more than three times, for a further period of up to six months if the exceptional circumstances persist.
2. The Council may, as a last resort and as a measure to protect the common interests within the area without internal border control, where all other measures, in particular those referred to in Article 19a(1), are ineffective in mitigating the serious threat identified, recommend that one or more Member States decide to reintroduce border control at all or at specific parts of their internal borders. The Council's recommendation shall be based on a proposal from the Commission. The Member States may request the Commission to submit such a proposal to the Council for a recommendation.
In its recommendation, the Council shall at least indicate the information referred to in points (a) to (e) of Article 24(1).
The Council may recommend a prolongation in accordance with the conditions and procedure set out in this Article.
Before a Member State reintroduces border control at all or at specific parts of its internal borders under this paragraph, it shall notify the other Member States, the European Parliament and the Commission accordingly.
3. In the event that the recommendation referred to in paragraph 2 is not implemented by a Member State, that Member State shall without delay inform the Commission in writing of its reasons.
In such a case, the Commission shall present a report to the European Parliament and to the Council assessing the reasons provided by the Member State concerned and the consequences for protecting the common interests of the area without internal border control.
4. On duly justified grounds of urgency relating to situations where the circumstances giving rise to the need to prolong border control at internal borders in accordance with paragraph 2 become known less than 10 days before the end of the preceding reintroduction period, the Commission may adopt any necessary recommendations by means of immediately applicable implementing acts in accordance with the procedure referred to in Article 33a(3). Within 14 days of the adoption of such recommendations, the Commission shall submit to the Council a proposal for a recommendation in accordance with paragraph 2.
5. This Article shall be without prejudice to measures that may be adopted by the Member States in the event of a serious threat to public policy or internal security under Articles 23, 24 and 25.

Article 26a

Criteria for the temporary reintroduction of border control at internal borders where exceptional circumstances put the overall functioning of the area without internal border control at risk

1. Where, as a last resort, the Council recommends in accordance with Article 26(2) the temporary reintroduction of border control at one or more internal borders or at parts thereof, it shall assess the extent to which such a measure is likely to adequately remedy the threat to public policy or internal security within the area without internal border control, and shall assess the proportionality of the measure in relation to that threat. That assessment shall be based on the detailed information submitted by the Member State(s) concerned and by the Commission and any other relevant information, including any information obtained pursuant to paragraph 2 of this Article. In making such an assessment, the following considerations shall in particular be taken into account:
(a) the availability of technical or financial support measures which could be or have been resorted to at national or Union level, or both, including assistance by Union bodies, offices or agencies, such as the Agency, the European Asylum Support Office, established by Regulation (EU) No 439/2010 of the European Parliament and of the Council (16) or the European Police Office (“Europol”), established by Council Decision 2009/371/JHA (17), and the extent to which such measures are likely to adequately remedy the threat to public policy or internal security within the area without internal border control;
(b) the current and likely future impact of any serious deficiencies relating to external border control identified in the context of the evaluations carried out pursuant to Regulation (EU) No 1053/2013 and the extent to which such serious deficiencies constitute a serious threat to public policy or internal security within the area without internal border control;
(c) the likely impact of the reintroduction of border control on the free movement of persons within the area without internal border control.
2. Before adopting a proposal for a Council recommendation, in accordance with Article 26(2), the Commission may:
(a) request Member States, the Agency, Europol or other Union bodies, offices or agencies to provide it with further information;
(b)carry out on-site visits, with the support of experts from Member States and of the Agency, Europol or any other relevant Union body, office or agency, in order to obtain or verify information relevant for that recommendation.

Temporary impostion of border control for travel between Greece and other Schengen countries is not what I wish for. I hope that everything Greece and the EU are now doing will be enough that no such measures need be taken.
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:11 pm

Have you checked whether your "2006" codes have not been replaced - many times - before we get to the PRESENT 2016 codes ....

Do your 2006 codes mention NATO activity and agreements with Turkey for taking back migrants?
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:45 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Have you checked whether your "2006" codes have not been replaced - many times - before we get to the PRESENT 2016 codes ....

Do your 2006 codes mention NATO activity and agreements with Turkey for taking back migrants?


What i have in fact quoted is
REGULATION (EU) No 1051/2013 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 22 October 2013
amending Regulation (EC) No 562/2006 in order to provide for common rules on the temporary reintroduction of border control at internal borders in exceptional circumstances


And what has been agreed with Turkey in returning those who arrive and the involvement of a non EU entity, NATO, have in seeking to stop them, has nothing directly to do with the specific serious deficiencies on the part of Greece in failing to properly check the idenity of those irregular who made it to Greece, which was the issue identified in the Schengen evaluation inspection in November 2015. Few of the 49 EU recommendations Greece has been required to implement under Article 19 SBC relate to either stopping or returning migrants, mainly only recording them so they can be properly processed.
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:45 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:What i have in fact quoted is
22 October 2013


OBSOLETE!
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:16 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:What i have in fact quoted is
22 October 2013


OBSOLETE!



Only in your dreams....or rather your nightmare,.... IMHO You really are chronically mentally deranged, living a life of complete delusion, in denial about the reality of your Greece as opposed to your artificial rose tinted construct, and the EU,. And in particular about what is happening now,UNDER CURRENT APPLICABLE EU LAW?

Not obsolete at all.

However If it is obsolete on what basis is the EU going through the process, which it has been going through since at the latest, November, with the inspections, and everything since then which have referred to SBC 19 and 26 and what are the current applicable regulations?
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Re: Greece under EU orders re borders

Postby erolz66 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:56 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:What i have in fact quoted is
22 October 2013


OBSOLETE!


The most absurd argument ever. Every single EU law is according to you 'obsolete' because every single one is 'historic'. This law is current and active and has not been repealed or replaced, not by the EU Turkey deal on migrants or by any thing else. Fact, truth, reality - all are 'obsolete' when your mono mania propaganda requires it. Same old same old.
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