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Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:20 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Greece asked for help from last May.


Answered here:

cyprus44599-110.html


stupid wrote:How? Frontex has no patrol staff nor equipment of its own nor any legal mandate for independent patrolling. All this had to done at the request of and under the authority of the home member state in the area concerned, with borrowed staff and equipment. .


What a load of Rubbish you do make up!

Frontex has been around, patrolling the external borders (when not scared off by Turkey) since 2010 ....


FRONTEX OPERATIONAL OFFICE OPENS IN PIRAEUS

2010-10-01

......... represents the Agency’s first premises outside its Warsaw HQ and is a pilot programme to test the effectiveness of strengthening Frontex’s regional presence to enhance coverage of the concrete operational and practical needs of Member States in the operational area of the EU’s southern borders.

Director De Brouwer said: “Greece is the Member State confronted with the biggest challenge. This is not a Greek problem, it is an EU issue,” going on to emphasise that solidarity, as a fundamental principle of the EU, was embodied by Frontex. “This operational office is the first of its kind,” he said. “It cannot fail. It simply cannot fail. […] FOO is an absolutely essential element of Frontex’s development. Failure of this centre is not an option.”


Frontex have been "testing their effectiveness" - they "simply cannot fail".

The question is, did Frontex "fail" or were they simply "deficient" ?

Whatever, they've received some ruddy great overhaul! :P
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:45 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:The question is, did Frontex "fail" or were they simply "deficient" ?


The question was , did the EU find in an official evaluation that GREECE was seriously neglecting it's obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls that must be overcome and dealt with by the Greek authorities.

The EU did find this, they announced publicly that that found this and you have now spent months trying to deny they said this, this reality, because this is what you do. What you have always done here.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:01 am

Greece wasn't supposedly 'deficient' because it didn't routinely check passports at Athens' airport or do security checks on its tourists (although they have been stretched due to money being diverted).

The deficiencies that were found were in the processes that were shared, that were set up years and years ago for Frontex to manage. The desperation for Frontex not to fail was so great and yet their shortfalls were found to be immense - shortfalls because too many member states did not contribute (e.g. Poland) either for routine Frontex operations or later when the crisis started forcefully and Greece alerted the EU when it requested more Frontex help and didn't get it.

Only a prime idiot or Greek-hater can see the situation that unfolded, the telling actions that were actually put in place (FAR MORE FRONTEX) and still hope it is only Greece that was found 'deficient'.

The evaluations mentioned Greece's sovereign territory and the EU external border - those deficiencies were on the management of the 'unprecedented' illegal migration crisis - orchestrated by Turkey. That CRISIS is NOT Greece's problem alone. Go back and see that ALL the actions put in place are to rectify deficiencies in the SHARED EU EXTERNAL border!

Director De Brouwer said: “Greece is the Member State confronted with the biggest challenge. This is not a Greek problem, it is an EU issue,” going on to emphasise that solidarity, as a fundamental principle of the EU, was embodied by Frontex. “This operational office is the first of its kind,” he said. “It cannot fail. It simply cannot fail.
[2010]
What a naive and ridiculous stance you have taken to deny the TRUTH and hang on to your hatred!
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:34 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Greece wasn't supposedly 'deficient' because it didn't routinely check passports at Athens' airport or do security checks on its tourists (although they have been stretched due to money being diverted).

The deficiencies that were found were in the processes that were shared, that were set up years and years ago for Frontex to manage. The desperation for Frontex not to fail was so great and yet their shortfalls were found to be immense - shortfalls because too many member states did not contribute (e.g. Poland) either for routine Frontex operations or later when the crisis started forcefully and Greece alerted the EU when it requested more Frontex help and didn't get it.


Just yet more total nonsense from you. We KNOW exactly what areas the EU have deemed GREECE to have been 'seriously deficient' in, from the list of 50 recommendations in the EU council's implementing decision that show what GREECE needs to do in order for GREECE to no longer be deemed by the EU to be seriously neglecting its obligations. These have been preneted to you time and again, and like any reality you do not like you just ignore them and carry on with your BS regardless.

To give just ONE example of ONE of the 50 recommendations that the EU Council has said Greece should implement.

Greece should 3. reinforce the Hellenic Police (HP) staffing for registration;


Ensuring that the HELLENIC POLICE staffing levels are sufficient, in NOT a responsibility of FRONTEX, of Belgium, or of the EU in general. It is a responsibility of GREECE. The idea that failing to ensure that Hellenic Police staffing levels were sufficent was a failure of Frontex, or of other EU countries or of the EU generally, is risible, and clearly and demonstrably so, just like the vast majority of you claims here about this whole thing have been, for month after sorry month.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Only a prime idiot or Greek-hater .....


Only a systematic denier and distorter of reality can turn the EU saying that Greece was found to be seriously neglecting its obligations into everyone but Greece has been seriously neglecting its obligations.

YOU can claim all you like that it was FRONTEX that was found in the Schengen evaluation report on Greece to be 'seriously deficient', as you have done now for month after month after month. That YOU claim this does NOT change the FACT that the EU itself says otherwise, says explicitly that it was GREECE that was found to be so. There is reality in the forum of what the EU has actually explicilty said and then their are you fantasy world claims.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:45 am

All the deficiencies in managing this Turk-created crisis were found to be in the SHARED roles under the umbrella of Frontex as set up with their mantra: "This is not a Greek problem. It is an EU issue."

The ones who do not understand this EU solidarity are the Greek-hating Turks. For how must it pain Turkey to have gone to all that trouble, yet again, to try and DESTROY Greece and then end up seeing MORE Frontex in the Aegean .... MORE NATO in the Aegean to help Frontex.

Once again, hoisted by their own petard. :P

I now have a vision of an angry, mad erolz standing outside the EU offices screaming: "WHY ARE YOU HELPING GREECE?" Frontex were doing a great job - it is Greece that is 'deficient' - why don't you read those old documents!" :lol:
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:23 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:The ones who do not understand this EU solidarity are ...


EU solidarity does not mean that Greece can never do any wrong, can never be deficient and it can only be others that were or are deficient, which is the essence of your argument.

GREECE was found to be seriously neglecting it obligations. The EU has SAID THIS EXPLICITLY. You just deny this undeniable reality . month after month after month, because this is WHAT YOU DO, what you have always done here on these forums.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:All the deficiencies in managing this crisis were found to be in the SHARED roles under the umbrella of Frontex


Total and utter made up bollocks (nothing new there then) as can be seen just by looking at ONE of the 50 EU Council recommendations that Greece needs to implement. Ensuring that the Hellenic Police has sufficient staff is NOT a shared responsibility. It is NOT a responsibility of Frontex it has NOTHING to do with Frontex. It was and is GREECE's responsibility. It was one of 50 such responsibilities of GREECE that the EU has publicly stated GREECE was failing to meet.

Who is responsible for the Hellenic Police GiG ? Frontex are responsible for the Hellenic Police are they ? This is the level of stupidity of your 'arguments'.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:31 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Greece should 3. reinforce the Hellenic Police (HP) staffing for registration;


Ensuring that the HELLENIC POLICE staffing levels are sufficient, in NOT a responsibility of FRONTEX,


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

FRONTEX CALLS ON MEMBER STATES TO DEPLOY MORE OFFICERS TO GREECE

2016-03-23

Frontex Executive Director Fabrice Leggeri has called on EU Member States to come forward with additional police officers and readmission experts to support Greece in returning migrants to Turkey.

Following a call for officers issued by Frontex on Friday, 18 March, Member States have so far offered 396 police officers of the 1500 requested. Frontex has also received offers to provide 47 of the 50 readmission experts the agency asked for.

“I am grateful to the countries who have offered police officers to assist in the escorting of migrants. We have almost reached the target for readmission experts. But I urge other Member States to pledge many more police officers if we want to be ready to support readmission to Turkey as agreed by the EU Council,” said Frontex Executive Director Fabrice Leggeri.

Frontex has shared with the Greek authorities the updated operational plan for Poseidon Rapid Intervention. It will be ready before the deadline at the end of this week. Frontex has also prepared a special training package for the escort officers.

The readmission operations will proceed in full compliance with EU and international law, as well as the principle of non-refoulement.

All of the officers will be seconded to Frontex from the authorities of Member States for a temporary period.


Just give up, will you! :P
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:54 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:Greece asked for help from last May.


Answered here:

cyprus44599-110.html


stupid wrote:How? Frontex has no patrol staff nor equipment of its own nor any legal mandate for independent patrolling. All this had to done at the request of and under the authority of the home member state in the area concerned, with borrowed staff and equipment. .


What a load of Rubbish you do make up!

Frontex has been around, patrolling the external borders (when not scared off by Turkey) since 2010 ....


FRONTEX OPERATIONAL OFFICE OPENS IN PIRAEUS

2010-10-01

......... represents the Agency’s first premises outside its Warsaw HQ and is a pilot programme to test the effectiveness of strengthening Frontex’s regional presence to enhance coverage of the concrete operational and practical needs of Member States in the operational area of the EU’s southern borders.

Director De Brouwer said: “Greece is the Member State confronted with the biggest challenge. This is not a Greek problem, it is an EU issue,” going on to emphasise that solidarity, as a fundamental principle of the EU, was embodied by Frontex. “This operational office is the first of its kind,” he said. “It cannot fail. It simply cannot fail. […] FOO is an absolutely essential element of Frontex’s development. Failure of this centre is not an option.”


Frontex have been "testing their effectiveness" - they "simply cannot fail".

The question is, did Frontex "fail" or were they simply "deficient" ?

Whatever, they've received some ruddy great overhaul! :P


Your claims are as usual wrong and that is because you willfully lie about the mission . role and responsibility of Frontex.

The Following sets out the Position
MISSION AND TASKS
Frontex promotes, coordinates and develops European border management in line with the EU fundamental rights charter applying the concept of Integrated Border Management.

Frontex helps border authorities from different EU countries work together. Frontex’s full title is the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union. The agency was set up in 2004 to reinforce and streamline cooperation between national border authorities. In pursuit of this goal, Frontex has several operational areas which are defined in the founding Frontex Regulation and a subsequent amendment. These areas of activity are:

Joint Operations — Frontex plans, coordinates, implements and evaluates joint operations conducted using Member States’ staff and equipment at the external borders (sea, land and air).

Training — Frontex is responsible for developing common training standards and specialist tools. These include the Common Core Curriculum, which provides a common entry-level training rationale for border guards across the Union, and mid- and high-level training for more senior officers.

Risk Analysis — Frontex collates and analyses intelligence on the ongoing situation at the external borders. These data are compiled from border crossing points and other operational information as well as from the Member States and open sources including mass media and academic research.

Research — Frontex serves as a platform to bring together Europe’s border-control personnel and the world of research and industry to bridge the gap between technological advancement and the needs of border control authorities.

Providing a rapid response capability — Frontex has created a pooled resource in the form of European Border Guard Teams (EBGT) and an extensive database of available equipment which brings together specialist human and technical resources from across the EU. These teams are kept in full readiness in case of a crisis situation at the external border.

Assisting Member States in joint return operations — When Member States make the decision to return foreign nationals staying illegally, who have failed to leave voluntarily, Frontex assists those Member States in coordinating their efforts to maximise efficiency and cost-effectiveness while also ensuring that respect for fundamental rights and the human dignity of returnees is maintained at every stage.

Information systems and information sharing environment — Information regarding emerging risks and the current state of affairs at the external borders form the basis of risk analysis and so-called “situational awareness” for border control authorities in the EU. Frontex develops and operates information systems enabling the exchange of such information, including the Information and Coordination Network established by Decision 2005/267/EC and European border surveillance system.

While fulfilling its mandate, Frontex liaises closely with other EU partners involved in the development of the area of Freedom, Security and Justice such as Europol, EASO, Eurojust, FRA or CEPOL, as well as with customs authorities in order to promote overall cohesion.

Frontex also works closely with the border-control authorities of non-EU/Schengen countries — mainly those countries identified as a source or transit route of irregular migration — in line with general EU external relations policy.


and
[ROLES AND RESPONSIBILITIES
Schengen countries are obliged to deploy sufficient staff and resources to ensure a “high and uniform level of control” at the external borders of the Schengen area. They must also ensure that border guards are properly trained. EU and Schengen Associated Countries also assist each other with the effective application of border controls via operational cooperation, which is coordinated by the EU agency Frontex. Its main task is to augment and to add value to, border control activities of the Member States. Thus the agency is also mandated to assist EU countries in raising and harmonising border management standards with the aim of combating cross-border crime while making legitimate passage across the external border of the EU faster and easier.

The Schengen area now extends along some 44,000 km of external sea borders and almost 9,000 km of land borders. Schengen comprises 26 countries (including a number of non-EU states, so-called Schengen Associated Countries), meaning free internal movement for nearly half a billion people. It should be noted that the removal of checks at internal borders makes the controls at external borders much more important, since Schengen members are thus reliant on the checks made by other members. Simply put, the Schengen area’s border is only as strong as its weakest link.

The Schengen Borders Code includes a series of detailed measures designed to compensate for the abolition of internal border controls by tightening security at the Union’s external frontiers. It clearly states that the primary responsibility of border control lies with those Schengen countries that have an external border – including land and sea borders and international airports. One key requirement is that Member States having an external frontier must ensure that proper checks and effective surveillance are carried out there.

How it works
While regular border control is the exclusive responsibility of the Member States, Frontex’s role focuses on coordination of deployment of additional experts and technical equipment to those border areas which find themselves under significant pressure. Frontex also builds the capacity of the member states in various areas related to border control, including training and sharing of best practices.

Intelligence-driven
Frontex joint operations are planned and developed on the basis of an Annual Risk Analysis Report which analyses the likely future risk of irregular migration and cross-border crime along the EU external border. During the annual meetings with Member States the agency then prioritises the proposed joint operations on the basis of their importance and the resources available in order to ensure an effective response.

Consultation with Member States
Together with the host country Frontex makes an assessment of the number of officers with specific expertise and the quantity and type of technical equipment required. Frontex then directs a request to all Member States and Schengen Associated Countries for the necessary officers, clearly specifying their required profiles (false document experts, border checks, surveillance experts, dog handlers, debriefers etc) as well as specific equipment needed for the operation (e.g. helicopters, planes, patrol cars, thermo-vision equipment, heart-beat detectors). Those countries then decide on the level of contribution they can make to the joint operation.

Operational Plan
This document clearly defines the aim of each joint operation, where it is to take place and the quantities and types of technical equipment and officers to take part. Many operations require the deployment of debriefers, who conduct interviews with migrants with the purpose of gathering information about people-smuggling networks. In addition, cultural mediators and interpreters enable migrants to express themselves in their own languages. The operational plan also clearly states the rules of engagement for officers taking part in the operation.

Implementation
At this stage, border guards and technical equipment are deployed to the operational area and carry out their duties according to the operational plan. The deployed officers (guest officers) work under the command and control of the authorities of the country hosting the operation.

During deployment guest officers have capacity to perform all tasks and exercise all powers for border checks or border surveillance in accordance with Schengen Borders Code being border checks, border surveillance, stamping, interviewing undocumented persons, consultation of databases.

They wear their national uniforms and a blue armband (picture) with the insignia of the EU and Frontex. For the purposes of identification vis-à-vis national authorities and citizens, guest officers carry an accreditation document, provided by Frontex, which they must present on request.

Code of conduct
All officers deployed to an operation coordinated by Frontex are bound by the code of conduct, which includes specific provisions on the respect of fundamental rights and the right to international protection and lays out a set of behavioural standards that all staff involved in a Frontex joint operation must follow.

Evaluation
Once completed, each operation is evaluated by Frontex, the participating countries and other stakeholders involved ensuring that the operational process is constantly refined./quote]

This coveres the request for assistance made after the Evaluation of Greece which occured on 10t-13th November
Furthermore, Member States faced with a situation of urgent and exceptional pressure may request the assistance of the Rapid Border Intervention Teams (RABITs) provided in the Frontex Regulation. On 3 December, Greece submitted such a formal request to Frontex for the deployment of a Rapid Border Intervention Team operation to provide immediate border guard support at its external border in the Aegean islands. On 10 December Frontex took the necessary decisions to launch this operation and to immediately agree on the operational plan with the Greek Authorities within the same operational area as Poseidon Sea.


The Aegean Islands had problems for months before so why was a RABIT not requested earlier, as it is the request for a RABIT that is the trigger for support.

As for opening an Office: that was to provide a local presence for Frontex to do what its role and responsibilities were defined to be , w as quoted above and legally prescribed here in COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 2007/2004 of 26 October 2004 establishing a European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union (OJ L 349, 25.11.2004, p. 1) Amended by: ►M1 Regulation (EC) No 863/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007 L 199 30 31.7.2007 ►M2 Regulation (EU) No 1168/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 L 304 1 22.11.2011, which does NOT involve FRONTEX patrolling.
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/e-library/documents/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/docs/frontex_regulation_consolidated_2011_en.pdf

Border management responsibility is defined here in that law which was good and valid law at all material times
(4) The responsibility for the control and surveillance of external borders lies with the Member States.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:17 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: Just give up, will you! :P


Give up pointing out your lies and nonsense ? Unlikely.

Do you know the difference between a Hellenic Police officer and a Frontex officer ? Trying to make out that a Frontex officer IS a Hellenic Police officer, is no more convincing that your LIE that the 8th Biannual Report on the functioning of the Schengen area IS the Schengen evaluation report on Greece. Blatant lie and clearly so, both claims. Same old same old.

Who is responsible for the Hellenic Police GiG ? Will you answer this question. No of course you will not.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:30 pm

erolz66 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote: Just give up, will you! :P


Give up pointing out your lies and nonsense ? Unlikely.

Do you know the difference between a Hellenic Police officer and a Frontex officer ? Trying to make out that a Frontex officer IS a Hellenic Police officer, is no more convincing that your LIE that the 8th Biannual Report on the functioning of the Schengen area IS the Schengen evaluation report on Greece. Blatant lie and clearly so, both claims. Same old same old.

Who is responsible for the Hellenic Police GiG ? Will you answer this question. No of course you will not.


Your desperation to cling to a false thesis is rather pathetic, don't you think? :lol: So far, you've been caught putting false statements into the mouth of the EC and then rampantly trying to twist your way out through other lies.

You just don't accept the degree of solidarity the EU can show and that none of your predictions have been true.

Even the need for more police to specifically cover the EU external border. You just cannot decipher the recommendations because you want blame for Greece. That's not how it is!

The FACT: It's Frontex who have had to cover the deficiencies in the SHARED management of the external border by recruiting more officers for the extra one million illegal migrants.

My village in Greece doesn't need another Hellenic Officer! It's the blooming joint EU external Border that needs more officers. AND THAT IS A JOINT RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL THE EU - hence why FRONTEX are recruiting more POLICE!

Tell me why FRONTEX are recruiting more police officers to send to Greece!

(a) They just felt like it?
(b) They are having a secret policeman's ball?

The answer is staring you in the face!

How many times will you be shot down with your stupid assumptions before you connect with reality?
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