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Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:29 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: My village in Greece doesn't need another Hellenic Officer!


One of the 50 things the EU has said GREECE needs to do, to rectify ITS serious deficiencies is reinforce the Hellenic Police. What YOU think and claim is needed is TOTALLY irrelevant.

Your latest claim was that

All the deficiencies in managing this crisis were found to be in the SHARED roles under the umbrella of Frontex


This is a LIE, one in a succession of such blatant lies. It is not true. It is demonstrated as not being true by the FACT that, to give ONE example, the specific measure 'no 3' the EU has said GREECE needs to do, to address Greece's identified serious deficiencies, is CLEARLY and UNDENIABLY something that is the responsibility of GREECE and under the control only of GREECE and NOTHING to do with Frontex at all.

Yet on and on and on you go with your lies and distortions, oblivious to actual proven reality. This is what you do, what you have always done here.

The EU has said explicitly and unambiguously that it was GREECE that was found to be seriously neglecting its obligations. You have spent nigh on four months trying to deny this reality, because that is WHAT YOU DO, it is what you have ALWAYS done here on these forums. Its pathetic.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:How many times will you be shot down with your stupid assumptions before you connect with reality?


Less that you will be shot down with the hard undeniable facts of what the EU has actually said, which you will just ignore as you ignore all such reality that does not suit.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:51 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: So far, you've been caught putting false statements into the mouth of the EC and then rampantly trying to twist your way out through other lies.


I claimed that if the EU were to implement Article 26 as a result of Greece having been found to be 'seriously deficient' and then failed to rectify those deficiencies within the three months given, in such a manner that had the effect of suspending Greece and only Greece from Schengen, this would represent a 'sanctioning' of Greece by the EU. You after three months of lies, twisting. distortion, insults, screaming and shouting finally produced some credible evidence that the EU has said doing such would not be a 'sanctioning' of Greece. I immediately accepted the reality that the EU had said this, accept that it contradicts my claim (that has also been made by 100's of journalist as well) and stated that I did not share that view. That is the behaviour of a rational person.

You in the face of the EU stating Greece had been found in an official evaluation to have been seriously neglecting its obligations, have just repeated for nigh on four months now, the EU did not say this. You have spent nigh on four months denying reality, telling lie after lie and twist and distortion that you can come up with to try and justify your claim. Lies like the 8th bi annual report on the function of schengen area WAS the Schengen evaluation report on Greece. When these lies are exposed and shown to be untrue, for it to be impossible that they were true, you just ignore that , never address the contradiction, pretend there is no contradiction and plough on and on and on repeating the same lies. This is what you do. Such is not the behaviour of a rational person, it is the behaviour of a raving fanatic disconnected from any reality.

The difference between how I behave and you behave is a plain and clear as the fact that the EU did and find GREECE to be seriously neglecting its obligations. Like all truth that does not suit you, you will just ignore it and keep going on and on and on.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:57 pm

erolz66 wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote: My village in Greece doesn't need another Hellenic Officer!


One of the 50 things the EU has said GREECE needs to do, to rectify ITS serious deficiencies is reinforce the Hellenic Police. What YOU think and claim is needed is TOTALLY irrelevant.


Oh, so the EU wants my village to have three policemen patrolling and not just two, huh? A while ago they made Greece cut from three to two, and now?

You're the one who couldn't believe Frontex would hire extra police to send to Greece to help with the shared management of the external border. :lol:

And yet, I showed you their current recruitment drive to do just that!

Because that is where the deficiency arose - in the management of the EU joint external border and that is why more police are required and that is why Frontex are recruiting more. The Hellenic force is for general use - but for the improvement of the crisis management it is FRONTEX who have to recruit more police. But the word 'Hellenic' is used because - guess what? - that's where they have to go - because that is the area that is being challenged by the Turkey-created crisis!

Because as that clever man said:

"This is not a Greek problem. It is an EU issue,”
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:21 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Oh, so the EU wants my village to have three policemen patrolling and not just two, huh? A while ago they made Greece cut from three to two, and now?


What I have said is that when the EU says Greece has been found to be is seriously neglecting it's obligations, this means that the EU has found Greece to be seriously neglecting it obligations and what you claim or think or twist and distort about 'your village' has absolutely no relevance to the simple plain FACT that EU said Greece has been found to be is seriously neglecting it's obligations.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:You're the one who couldn't believe Frontex would hire extra police to send to Greece to help with the shared management of the external border. :lol:


Your fantasies as to what you claim I believe are of no relevance or interest.

Your claim that "All the deficiencies in managing this crisis were found to be in the SHARED roles under the umbrella of Frontex" is not true and it is proven to not be true by the FACT that the measures stated by the EU to rectify the identified serious defiances of Greece include things that are SOLELY the responsibility of GREECE and that Frontex has no control or say over what so ever. Your ramblings about an entirely different force to that of the Hellenic Police force and your fantasies about what I believe have no more force that you claims that an entirely different document that pre-dates the Schengen evaluation report on Greece and that itself says pre-dates the Schengen evaluation report on Greece WAS the Schengen evaluation report on Greece.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Because as that clever man said:

[b]"This is not a Greek problem. It is an EU issue,”


When the EU Commission publicly announced that the Schengen evaluation report on Greece had concluded Greece was seriously neglecting it's obligations, you claimed that was just a 'debating site' and 'was not the EU' and went on to claim it was all 'outdated' documents and countless other lies besides. You did this because what those things said did not suit your purpose. Now that you have found a single quote from a single EU document from 2010, that you can twist and distort, by making out the the 'this' in the quote actually refers to those obligations that were and still are Greece's alone, which itself is just not true, this single persons from a quote in 2010 becomes 'gosple' because that suits your purpose. This is what you do.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:26 pm

It doesn't matter what delusions you cling to. Time and again your sources and interpretations have been discounted as deficient!

You are so angry that finally Frontex is getting the help it needs to contribute a major Aegean force after Turkey tried to wreck this ...

Most of what I see happening is what I said would happen. More Frontex help at the EU external border (plus a little extra :D ).

Now, Frontex .... move on down to thwart those Turkish boats bringing illegal settlers to Cyprus ....
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:36 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:It doesn't matter what you cling to. Time and again your sources and interpretations have been discounted as deficient!


I know to YOU it does not matter that the EU has directly and unambiguously and publicly stated that Greece was found in an official evaluation to be seriously neglecting its obligations. Reality, truth, these things mean nothing to you, they never have and probably never will. In your fanatics head Greece could never fail at anything, thus Greece was not found to by the EU to be seriously neglecting its obligations. That the reality is that the EU did find this is of no relevance or interest to you what so ever. You have said it did not, because in your head it is impossible for Greece to have failed at anything, and that is that - everything else is irrelevant to you.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:You are so angry that finally Frontex is getting the help it needs to contribute a major Aegean force after Turkey tried to wreck this ...


Your claims about 'my anger' are just yet more of your made up fantasies. Of no relevance or interest.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:49 pm

It's your interpretation that's wrong. :D

Otherwise, why else would we be seeing the exact opposite of all your claims/blames and assertions/punishments?

:lol:
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:04 pm

Oh look ... more "Hellenic Police" joining the management of the EU External Border ...


Czech police officers to help enforce EU-Turkey agreement in Greece

25-04-2016

The Czech Republic is to send thirty police officers to Greece on Friday where they will help fulfill the EU’s agreement with Turkey on the return of migrants who attempt to enter the EU via Greece. The officers will be assigned to the European border agency Frontex where they will be directly involved in the process of escorting migrants back to Turkey.
RadioPrague

"They will boost the ranks of an international team of officers from Germany, Austria and Slovakia who are already fulfilling this task."

:lol:
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:13 pm

And if the EU is going to come clean about how severely deficient Frontex has been in its border management duties, we will need more independent studies like this one and not just EU/EC led 'evaluations' ....

An investigation by Goldsmiths university’s department of forensic oceanography used previously unreleased operational documents and minutes of political meetings, [ probably interpreted them better than erolz managed :P ] to produce strong evidence that decisions to terminate the Italian Navy’s Mare Nostrum operation and replace it with the severely limited Frontex-led Triton operation, “were taken in all knowledge of their deadly consequences, by policy makers who prioritized deterrence over human lives.”
The report, ‘Death By Rescue’, said that the end of Mare Nostrum shifted the burden of extremely dangerous search and rescue operations onto large merchant ships, which are ill-fitted to conduct them.
“This ultimately led assistance to become deadly… as demonstrated by spatial and statistical analysis, the deadly effects of this policy began to manifest themselves already in the first months of 2015, when a peak in the mortality rate of migrants’ crossings was reached due to the gap in SAR capabilities. Neither these signals nor the calls that followed each case of death at sea were heeded.”
A key actor in the planning that led to this deadly policy shift, the report states, was Frontex, the European border agency.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:37 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:It's your interpretation that's wrong. :D


Did the EU state that the official schengen evaluation report on Greece concluded that Greece was seriously neglecting it's obligations ?

Simple question - one that you will simply ignore, because the truth of the answer, easily shown and proven does not suit you. Simple.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Otherwise, why else would we be seeing the exact opposite of all your claims/blames and assertions/punishments?


What we (sane, rational, non fanatical individuals) are seeing, along with a whole range of things that are not relevant to the issue of 'did EU find Greece was seriously neglecting its obligations', is Greece trying to rectify the identified serious deficiencies within the three month deadline, so that it is not longer seriously neglecting its obligations, in order to avoid the EU, under article 26, imposing on it against it's will the time limited closing of internal boarders between Greece and other Schengen members, the effective suspension of Greece from Schengen.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Oh look ... more "Hellenic Police" joining the management of the EU External Border ...


I am not responsible for inability to comprehend or understand the difference between a Hellenic Police officer and a Frontex officer, or for your wilful attempts to try and present one as the other or to present them as one and the same, despite actual reality, to suit your lies. It is just yet one more of your systematic lying, distorting and twisting that started with you trying to present and confuse and directly claim that the 8th Biannual Report on the function of Schengen area WAS the Schengen evaluation report on Greece , despite actual reality and in order to suit your lies.
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