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Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun May 01, 2016 1:24 pm

Indeed, it is emerging that the COMMON linking factor in the deficiencies seen in handling the crisis around the EU's external borders has been the inefficiency, the 'deficiency' of Frontex to carry out its role effectively - that is WHY it is now at the forefront of the biggest shake-up ever of any EU branch.

Operation Triton is Frontex's sister operation to Poseidon in Greece.

THE FRONTEX FAILURE

Operation Triton has failed. We must do more. With 2015 promising to be the deadliest year on record for migrant drowning, the EU response is at its smallest and least effective.

On Wednesday, February 11, three hundred more migrants died at sea. While the Italian Coast Guard dispatched ships from Lampedusa, the merchant ship charged with monitoring the distressed dinghies couldn’t safely board passengers due to high wind and waves. Once help arrived, the open boats offered little protection from the elements, and 29 more people died on the way to shore.

Differing agendas are pulling Operation Triton apart. The operation has neither the manpower nor the resources to handle the duties Mare Nostrum formerly filled.


http://www.christophercatrambone.com/th ... x-failure/
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Sun May 01, 2016 8:37 pm

The EU in an official evaluation report on Greece concluded Greece was seriously neglecting its obligations. They used the words "Greece is seriously neglecting its obligations".

You tried to claim this was just a 'debating site' and 'not the EU and 'not the document policy would be made on' and countless other distortions and distraction- all untrue claims and proven time and again to be untrue.

You tried to claim the 'evaluation report' they were talking was in fact an entirely different document, itself not even an evaluation report and that itself explicitly said did not cover the period of the evaluation report on Greece and that explicitly referred to the evaluation report on Greece as being at that point not completed - and used this blatant distortion to layer lie after lie after lie on top of this original lie. In nigh on four months you have never once addressed this original gross and proven distortion of yours. You used this document, that was not the evaluation report on Greece, that said it was not the evaluation report on Greece and that said it did not cover the evaluation report on Greece, to 'prove' that the evaluation report on Greece did not say what it actually said. Your lie was no more sophisticated than this, and yet you just repeated it over and over and over relentlessly more than 15 separate times and simply ignored every time it was pointed out and proven to you that you were using a document that pre dated the evaluation report on Greece, to try and argue what the evaluation report on Greece said. This is what you do. Relentless blatant distortion of reality to suit your agenda, repeated over and over and over.

The FACTS remain the same. Greece was found by the EU in an official Schengen Evaluation report on Greece to have been " seriously neglecting its obligations". As a result of this finding the EU Council passed an implementing decision, with Greece the only country to vote against this implementing decision (which itself shows the nonsense of you argument that all criticism was against Frontex and not Greece), which placed a 3 month deadline by which Greece had to rectify the serious deficiencies and if it failed then Article 26 could be used.

From the off you have distorted and lied and twisted and you just continue to do so, because you do not like the reality. Reality does not fit with your image of Greece the infallible, therefore reality must be 'adjusted' by you. This is what you do, what you have always done.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun May 01, 2016 9:16 pm

There is something very wrong with you when even the EU is trying to do the right thing by the shared management of the EU borders (without outright criticism of its pet project of Frontex).

There is something wrong with you when the action plans in place do not parallel any of the recommendations you dictate Greece (alone) should follow.

There is something wrong with you when countless independent studies find time and again that Frontex has been deficient but the EU must protect it (cover up its faults). Yet you ignore open studies and instead want to hang on to something (your interpretation of a so-called conclusion) with which you can condemn a group of people - you are a RACIST of the highest order!
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sun May 01, 2016 9:53 pm

I would like to remind everyone that it is the EU, and bodies thereof , not Erolz or I,which are crticitical of Greece in performing certsin aspects of its obligations to manage its borders.

It is the EU and bodies thereof which are insisting, not Erolz or I, that within three months Greece must show it has dealt with the serious deficiencies , failing which action will be taken under article 26 to secure the Schengen zone by measures which migh include partial impostion of border controls at some internal EU borders.

This must happen within 11 days.

That is the reality, irrespective of anything and everything else which is happening, and which do not and cannot detract from the fact Greece has been found to be deficient as described in a list of 49' specific items and one general item , which Greece abd noone else had to deal with.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Sun May 01, 2016 10:34 pm

Just on and on and on with your relentless distortions - because this is what you do.

If you do not like what the EU, in an official EU evaluation of Greece, plainly stated (as you did not all those months ago)

1. Deny that it was even the EU that said it at all or make out it was some 'theoretical debate' and not a clear cut deceleration by the EU of what the evaluation report on Greece concluded.
2. Make out that it was some 'throw away irrelevant comment' and 'not policy' - Even after the highest policy ratifying body in the EU used the very thing you argued 'was not the thing policy would be based on', as the basis for its implementing decision.
3. Make out that an entirely different document that itself explicitly says is not the Schengen evaluation report on Greece IS the Schengen evaluation document on Greece.
4. Make claim after claim after claim about the Schengen evaluation report on Greece, based on the previous distortion number 3, arguing that a document that was produced before the schengen evaluation report on Greece and covering a period during which no evaluation on Greece at all was completed, was proof that Greece had not been found to be seriously neglecting it obligations in the schengen evaluation report on Greece, despite the EU explicitly saying this is what the evaluation report on Greece concluded and despite 'your' document explicitly saying did not cover the conclusion of the evaluation report on Greece because it had not been completed when 'your' document was produced.
5. Claim that it was Frontex that was found to be seriously neglecting it obligations in the schengen evaluation report on Greece, despite the EU saying explicitly that it was Greece that was found to be doing so in this evaluation report and NOT saying that it was Frontex that was deficient.
6. Claim that it was Frontex that was found to be seriously neglecting it obligations in the schengen evaluation report on Greece, despite the fact that Greece itself publicly registered it's belief that "that the findings of the unannounced evaluation visit carried out from 10 to 13 November 2015 do not constitute “serious deficiencies” and show no evidence that “Greece is seriously neglecting its obligations”, when it, the only country to do so, voted against the implementing decisions of the EU Council based on the evaluation report on Greece, whilst making no comment what so ever about Frontex at all.
7. Make out that it is individuals on this forum that have said these things about Greece, and not the EU themselves.
8. Make out that the 50 recommendations to Greece as things Greece needs to deal with that were a part of the EU councils Implementing Decision, are things that individuals on this forum are saying Greece must do and not the the EU Council.
9. Do all of the above relentlessly, repeatedly month after month after month whilst never once addressing any of the distortions made above when challenged on them.
10. Claim relentlessly, repeatedly month after month after month that those who are exposing these distortions are 'liars' are 'introducing irrelevant EU documents' are unable to understand the EU and how it works and other irrelevant ad hominem attacks.

This is exactly what you have done since your first post about the EU press release that made public the conclusions of Schengen Evaluation report on Greece. For month after month after month. This what you always do here on these forums. You really do seem to think that your lies are more powerful than actual truth. You are wrong, they are not. Truth remains true regardless of your inane, intellectually bankrupt antics here on this forum and will remain true if you keep posting the same distortions for a week, a month, 3 months of 3 years.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun May 01, 2016 11:00 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:I would like to remind everyone that it is the EU, and bodies thereof , not Erolz or I,.


What absolute rubbish. You both live in a hate-filled bubble whilst the EU has rallied round to fulfill the obligations they were failing to do a while back. Shared management of the EU externals borders!

The EU has thrown extra police recruits, NATO forces and other patrols to plug the holes they had ignored, to date. The problem's being tackled and Greece just has to oversee the proceedings.

You hate that because it 100% proves you and erolz are muck-spreading trolls.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun May 01, 2016 11:01 pm

erolz66 wrote:Just on and on and on with your ...


Mis-interpretations and misrepresentations!

Stay off debating sites unless you can curb your enthusiasm for hate-filled muck-spreading.

The EU is not YOU!
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Mon May 02, 2016 6:44 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote: You both live in a hate-filled bubble


You are one of the most hate filed posters on this forum and always have been - so you accuse others of being hate filled. This is called projection.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:whilst the EU has rallied round to fulfill the obligations they were failing to do a while back. Shared management of the EU externals borders!


The EU council, in it's implementing decision overwhelmingly agreed by vote that Greece was failing to do it's share, had failed to meet it's obligations and the only country that voted against this was Greece.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon May 02, 2016 7:56 am

Erolz,

This particulsr person is clearly unhinged, has been for many years. I have already provided an example suggesting she has Paranis, that I was posting bad news about The collapse of a major buisiness just to upset her, whan the collapse of the largest supermarket chain employing many hundreds of staff owing many millions to banks and suppliers must be of general concern.

She seem to totally unable to accept that anything which is of general concern connected with Greece, eg possible retraction of the EU monetary sytem with the possible GREXIT is open for debate, (where it is still mentioned as a possibility in the press) and further seems unable to accept it is quite valid to engage in objective discussion of the problems, except on the terms that anyone being critical is a Greek hater, when my personal position is and has always been Grexit is probably not the best outcome for Greece, but that Greece has systemic problems of Government overspending leading to government debt, combined with massive tax evasion by some.

Schengen is under threat, from the migration crises. The migration is not the fault of Greece, but what Greece was obliged to do was check those coming in, which is where she was seriously deficient. Again she throws up shared management, but without regard to how the mechanisms of sharing are defined.

What GiG msy not realise is that this provides another opportunity for a step in the destruction of the member nations and conversion of them into provinces of an empire run out if Brussels and Strasbourg, with a lot of influence from Paris and Berlin. She claimed the Cyprus becoming a member of tge EU constituted Enosis with Greece, forgetting it was Enosis with all the other EU member states, including the former "colonial" power, Britain, though Britain may soon detatch Herself. Not something i thing is desireable. I share many of the concerns that the leave camp raise, but I think on balance many of the benefits they claim are illusiory and Britain is better off being in. That said reform is essential to the EU.

However the fact remains that despite all her twisted arguments greece has bern found deficient.

There is however for me only one reason why I would wish forvAction under Article 26 and thst is to see how Gig wound react... No doubt we woukd be blamed...it is however my sincere desire that without fudging the issue Greece is found to have remedied the problems and no actopn is needed. Whther spSchengen eil durvive us another matter in view of of unilateral action by some to control internal borders.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon May 02, 2016 10:20 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:Erolz,

This particulsr person is clearly unhinged, has been for many years.


So the two of you manically troll me for months, page after page of repeated garbage that neither of you has fully understood, material that is being ignored in all the EU action plans put in place, months of pouring out slogans or propaganda that are baseless in the face of the number of EU countries that are now coming out to do their bit and share the responsibility that was the factor found to be deficient in the JOINT management of the EU external border and now, after you and your pal jointly exhibited schizophrenic rage directed at one innocent country, you have the temerity to call someone else unhinged?

STOP TROLLING
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