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[supporttheunderdog]

Here in the meantime are some are some ponts gig has imho conspicuously failed to deal with and where here inability to answer the basic question but to engage in bland denial, dismissal or diversion, if not plain avoidance, as to whether these statements true? IHO says a lot about her credibility.

The points are

1) under ec 2007/2004 Greece is currently responsible for its external borders,
2)where the role of Frontex is limited in that role, and where in terms of providing assistance on tbe ground it is only at the invitation of the member state, eg Greece,
3)whereby following inspections carried out under the Schengen Evaluation regime The EU has found Serious deficiencies in how Greece was fulfilling certain obligations under Schengen,
4) where under article 19b SBC the Eu Council has required Greece to take steps to remedy those deficiencies,
5) where the EU council has also warned that if Greece does not do so in a satisfactory manner, steps may be taken under article 26 SBC to require Greece to impose border controls on the internal EU borders.
These are all, in my view confirmed truths, which "g"IG has sought to deny with diversion, deception, evasion and outright mendacity, despite these finding being reported in various official EU documents and EU official press releases, etc..

Again I repeat my request for to agree that these above statements are correct? If not to point by reference to current EU law and deciosions they are not.


They cannot be dismissed by describing Official EU statements etc, as "Meaningless Documents"and the fact that Greece has (belatedly) asked for and got help , for which see below) does not take away from those statements and the crticisms by the EU of Greece in border management.

I have some more points to add and a question or two:

Where Currently under EU law the responsibility for external borders lies with the nation member states and FRONTEX cannot intervene or assist unless and until asked by a member nation and where the current problems with migration by sea from Turkey have now been affecting Greece for some months, and where inspections took place under the Schengen Evaluation Mechanism in early November, why when help was available if asked for, did Greece fail to ask for that help until I think 3rd December? That is, after the inspections.

Are you happy that under the proposed changes the EU will have a lot more powers to step in without the "by your leave " of the member state , eg Greece, and impose measures, futher eroding the sovereignty of e.g .mGreece and its existance as a state, a natural part of EU development since eg Bruge, affecting all member states but turning more in to some sort of province run from Brussels?

[GreekIslandGirl]

STUD, you're peddling a dead horse, mate. The EU is evolving before our very eyes. It's being tested and rising to the challenge. Greece is always leading the way, of course.

If you want answers to your dilemma about why Greece is NOT going to face sanctions or expulsion, no matter how much you and erolz have been promoting this, then it's more important you look at what Juncker and Tusk have been saying on the matter as I'm done telling you and having it ignored as 'being blind'.

As a tip, don't believe everything you read that was written down long ago - it's not set in stone.

So, why don't you brush up on what is actually happening, hey? How NATO and Frontex are trying to help with the external border management and how Turkey is throwing in one obstacle after another. I think this little exercise is going to reveal a lot about what Greece has had to put up with from Turkey turfing out people like confetti over the sea.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The points are

1) under ec 2007/2004 Greece is currently responsible for its external borders,

I loathe to encourage you to read any more documents, but do you know how many times that's been revised since 2004?

[supporttheunderdog]

The points are

1) under ec 2007/2004 Greece is currently responsible for its external borders,

I loathe to encourage you to read any more documents, but do you know how many times that's been revised since 2004?

The role Of Frontex and functioning of Schengen has changed several times, but where has that particular provision of law been changed? Where you are asserting that is not the correct position , that in my view for you to prove, say by reference to the other documents which one assumes you must have read and be able to quote from and reference to in explicit terms, and that us a requirement of intelligent debate. That you do not quote or reference suggests to me that as usual you are trying but failing to make it up as you go along, and that you are incapable of intelligent debate..

[GreekIslandGirl]

Well, here's one point of the most recent one which answers many of your queries:

(2) The policies of the Union in border management, asylum and immigration and their implementation should be governed by the principle of solidarity and fair sharing of responsibility between the Member States pursuant to Article 80 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU). Wherever necessary, Union acts adopted in the framework of those policies are to contain appropriate measures to give effect to that principle and promote burden-sharing including through the transfer, on a voluntary basis, of beneficiaries of international protection.

PE-Cons 35/14

[supporttheunderdog]

STUD, you're peddling a dead horse, mate. The EU is evolving before our very eyes. It's being tested and rising to the challenge. Greece is always leading the way, of course.

If you want answers to your dilemma about why Greece is NOT going to face sanctions or expulsion, no matter how much you and erolz have been promoting this, then it's more important you look at what Juncker and Tusk have been saying on the matter as I'm done telling you and having it ignored as 'being blind'.

As a tip, don't believe everything you read that was written down long ago - it's not set in stone.

So, why don't you brush up on what is actually happening, hey? How NATO and Frontex are trying to help with the external border management and how Turkey is throwing in one obstacle after another. I think this little exercise is going to reveal a lot about what Greece has had to put up with from Turkey turfing out people like confetti over the sea.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Well, I see you are speechless!

[erolz66]

If you want answers to your dilemma about why Greece is NOT going to face sanctions or expulsion, no matter how much you and erolz have been promoting this,

And on and on with the same 'false premise' (distortion) - nothing can halt you using over and over. You are the embodiment of the expression 'like a dog (bitch) with a bone'. You just will not let it go.

I was never talking about what WOULD happen, or what I thought SHOULD happen. I was talking about what HAD happened based on the hardest of factual evidence that could possibly be supplied. Evidence you just 'did not care for'.

[GreekIslandGirl]

... I was talking about what HAD happened

Then according to you, Greece has been sanctioned AND has been expelled.

Your double act with stud is tiresome and the two of you should communicate more before you make each other look like bigger asses as a duet than you do individually.

Regardless, I've posted the facts ------- and you have been exposed for confusing documents and relying on outdated proposals.

[GreekIslandGirl]

And the most recent twist is that we might be hearing that other EU countries (not Greece) might be facing sanctions if they don't carry out their responsibilities and share the management costs of the external border patrols. I'm sure they'll step up in time .....