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Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:17 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Then according to you, Greece has been sanctioned AND has been expelled.


It is just not true to say I said this. Ever.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Your double act with stud is tiresome and the two of you should communicate more before you make each other look like bigger asses as a duet than you do individually.


Ad hominem attack.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Regardless, I've posted the facts -------


Not true. You have repeatedly made claims that are not true, and which have been shown to be not true, and you just go an and on regardless, just as you are now.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:and you have been exposed for confusing documents


Not true. You are the one who has repeatedly confused (with intent I believe) the "Eighth biannual report on the functioning of the Schengen area" with the "schengen evaluation report on Greece" as had been shown over and over again.

and relying on outdated proposals.


The Council of the European Union Implementing Decision of the 12 February 5985/16 is not 'outdated, nor is it 'proposals'. It is exactly what it says it is an Implementing decision of the EU Council taken on 12 feb 2016 - as has been explained to you over and over.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:00 am

Large scale return of migrants back to Turkey on the table for next meeting. This should be extended to the illegals shunted over from Turkey and squatting in the occupied region of Cyprus.

Turkey is under growing pressure to consider a major escalation in migrant deportations from Greece, a top European Union official said Thursday, amid preparations for a highly anticipated summit of EU and Turkish leaders next week.

"To many in Europe, the most promising method seems to be a fast and large-scale mechanism to ship back irregular migrants arriving in Greece. It would effectively break the business model of the smugglers."

Tusk ... had a direct message for them.

"I want to appeal to all potential illegal economic migrants, wherever you are from: Do not come to Europe," Tusk said.

"Do not risk your lives and your money. It is all for nothing. Greece, or any other European country, will no longer be a transit country."
from YahooNews
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:09 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Well, I see you are speechless! :lol:


Minor finger troubles an travel have delayed a reply.

The regulstion under debate is
REGULATION (EU) No .../2014 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of establishing rules for the surveillance of the external sea borders in the context of operational cooperation coordinated by the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union


And can be found at http://register.consilium.europa.eu/doc/srv?l=EN&f=PE%2035%202014%20INIT

Havy read it? I have. Nice try but I think you have cherry picked, rather than reading the whole thing.

Thr title which mentions the coordinating role gives a clue but if you read it you will find it is effectively subsidisry to EC 2007/2004,which defines the coordinating role of Frontex (and the primary role of tbe Member states in monitoring their own borders ) and places the responsibility on what is termed the host member state to make the plans and then coordinate them through Frontex, once Frontex are asked to assist and through them people from other member states are deployed. It also covers principally the monitoring of sea crossing, interception of craft, rescue. If people in distress, not the recording of irregular migrants once on shore which is the area of concern.

Implementation of this is not whst Greece has been criticized for.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:40 am

EU overwhelmed after acknowledging it has a duty to help ....

Assurances from the European Commission that relocation of asylum seekers from Greece to other EU member states will be stepped up ring hollow, given poor implementation to date.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:00 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:EU overwhelmed after acknowledging it has a duty to help ....

Assurances from the European Commission that relocation of asylum seekers from Greece to other EU member states will be stepped up ring hollow, given poor implementation to date.
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indeed there are, through various mechanism, various ways that the EU can (and should) help Greece - that has never been the issue but, as far as border control is concerned, upon proper request to Frontex, where no request was made until 3rd December - only after the inspections of 10th-13th November - and border control - i.e monitoring who is coming in, is to some extent a different issue to relocation of those who come in.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:23 pm

Someone is slowly but surely changing their story and modifying their stance...
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:47 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Someone is slowly but surely changing their story and modifying their stance...


In your dreams - the point remains that following inspections between 3 and 10th November 2015 Greece was criticized for serious deficiencies in how it was monitoring and recording irregular migrants and the Greek Government was required to take action under art 19B SBC to remedy those serious deficiencies and as matters stand may still be obliged to at least partially suspend full participation in Schengen though reintroduction of at least some border controls for internal EU borders under Art 26 SBC, if by May 12th (now six weeks away) they have not satisfied the relevant EU Bodies that the identified serious deficiencies have been adequately dealt with, with or without additional help arranged through Frontex, and nothing can change that, which has gone before.

Some of the help being poured into Greece is to deal with the serious deficiencies, and I repeat, I hope the steps taken are adequate to avoid any reintroduction of border control for travel from Greece to the rest of the Schengen area. The question remains why Greece had not recognised the situation and dealt with it, including demanding help earlier, but waited until December 3rd to ask for help, some three weeks after the inspections.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:52 pm

Here by the way is what I think is defining statement on Frontex's role in Controlling the External (EU) Borders of Nation States

Does Frontex replace border control of the EU countries?
No. Frontex only provides additional technical assistance to EU countries that face an increased migratory pressure. All the means and border guards deployed by Frontex work under the command of the national authorities. For example, there is always a national officer from a host country present aboard every vessel, patrol plane or helicopter deployed by Frontex.
,

http://frontex.europa.eu/pressroom/

Here is a Link to the Consolidated regulations on Frontex
[url]ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/pdf/fr_reg_consolidated_en.pdf[/url]

That is to say
COUNCIL REGULATION (EC) No 2007/2004 of 26 October 2004 establishing a European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union (OJ L 349, 25.11.2004, p. 1)
Amended by:
(1) Regulation (EC) No 863/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007
(2) Regulation (EU) No 1168/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011

These define the legal basis of Frontex
LEGAL BASIS
The European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union was established by Council Regulation (EC) 2007/2004 (26.10.2004, OJ L 349/25.11.2004) having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Community.

This Regulation was later amended by the Regulation (EC) No 863/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007 establishing a mechanism for the creation of Rapid Border Intervention Teams and amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 as regards that mechanism and regulating the tasks and powers of guest officers. It was last amended by the Regulation (EU) No 1168/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 establishing a European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union.


The text of the law should be here if the download works
fr_reg_consolidated_en.pdf


See (4)
The responsibility for the control and surveillance of external
borders lies with the Member States.


EC2007/2004 as amended by EC 863/2007 and EC 1168/2011 of has not yet but might soon be repealed but until that time that is still good law.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:10 pm

Yeah, it's nice. Greece gets to call the shots on what Frontex has to do! :D

(BTW - you're still quoting superseded codes.)
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:33 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Yeah, it's nice. Greece gets to call the shots on what Frontex has to do! :D


meanwhile back in the real world

the Commission in addition adopted on 24 February 2016 an implementing decision setting out a Recommendation on specific measures to be taken by Greece. The recommendations seek to ensure that Greece applies all Schengen rules related to management of the external border correctly and effectively.


GreekIslandGirl wrote:(BTW - you're still quoting superseded codes.)


There is nothing that 'supersedes' or makes 'obsolete' either article 19b of the Schengen boarder code, that allowed the commission to draw the measure GREECE needs to take or to Article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code, the article that legally grants the power to the EU Council, under qualified majority voting rules, to suspend a Schengen member state from Schengen for up to 2 years, if that member state has been found to be 'seriously deficient' in an evaluation report (as Greece was) and if they then fail to rectify those deficiencies within the three month time period. This code is real, current, in force and exactly the one that could be used against Greece if Greece fails to rectify the serious deficiencies within the three months. It is all laid out for you here by the EU in an 'idiots guide'.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... 210_en.pdf

If a Schengen Evaluation Report concludes that in the evaluated Member State there are “serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border control”, the Council may recommend remedial action to the Member State concerned. The Commission may also, under Article 19b of the Schengen Borders Code, recommend that the evaluated Member State take certain specific measures with a view to ensuring compliance with the Council recommendations.

The evaluated Member State then has three months from the date of adoption of the Council recommendations to complete the remedial actions. If the recommendations are not sufficiently addressed within three months, the Commission is empowered to trigger, as a last resort, measures to reintroduce internal border controls. Under Article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code, the Commission may propose a Recommendation, to be adopted by the Council, to reintroduce controls at all or specific parts of the border of one or more Member States. These are measures of last resort which are subject to a clearly defined process. They may be introduced for a period of up to six months. Controls can be prolonged for additional six month periods up to a maximum duration of two years


There is even a nice little 'flow chart' to make it simple and clear for those who are hard of understanding or those who seek to distort actual reality to suit their own agendas.

schengen.JPG


The EU commission evaluation report on GREECE found that GREECE was 'seriously deficient'. The Comission adopted this report

The Council adopted the recommendations for remedial action BY GREECE as proposed by the Commission

Commission adopts recommendation for specific measures to be taken BY GREECE under Article 19b

GREECE has three months from the council recommendations to complete the remedial actions

--------- this is where we currently are in the process in the middle of this three months --------------

If situation persists - Commission proposes reintroduction of internal border controls between Schengen members and GREECE - effectively suspending GREECE from Schengen.
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