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Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:48 am

erolz66 wrote:The CURRENT rules that govern the Schengen Evaluation mechanism,


That's the erolz way: to twist~twist your way out now you've seen STUD humiliated again. :P

- And to turn to using the general cover-all of "CURRENT". :D

Duh, if you hadn't told us there were some 'current' rules, we would never have known.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Bordersd

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:33 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
erolz66 wrote:The CURRENT rules that govern the Schengen Evaluation mechanism,


That's the erolz way: to twist~twist your way out now you've seen STUD humiliated again. :P

- And to turn to using the general cover-all of "CURRENT". :D

Duh, if you hadn't told us there were some 'current' rules, we would never have known.


Humiliated? When you have not produced one shred of verifisble evidence in sport of anything you have said?

Y

Rather you have exposed your to riducle and conempt, and this latest distortion, that Iam humiliated is just the latest of your lies. I really think, as Erolz has said that you are mad, stark staring made, a couple of stops shrt of Dagenham,,,,

You have plainly showed you are not aable to argue rationally. That in my view is because you are not rationsl. When presented with an official item you have sought to say it is some how something different, or not valid, all the time these are simply bland assertions which are seldom supported, let alone with anything with the status of the evidence I have relied upon.

Indeed your statement I have somehow been humiliated is it self a bald assertion, bereft of arguement, let alone evidence, but that is what you do, you make bald assertions or bland denials, that in essence are without substance, that or you engage in straw man arguments, and resort to other tricks of lies and distortions.

What Is really sad? Not that you think other people will believe you, and I suspect that many think you are an empty vessel that just makes noise, but that you might believe it your self.

I think there could even be a hint of narcisism in you...you seek to dominate and manipulate, you have to be the center, the I am and you will lie and twist to do it. Thevtrouble is that the printed word takes away the sting that personsl presence might provide, but rather in written debate the arguments must be presented logically and with evidence, neither of which you are seemingly capable of managing. In my view You are in fact a waste of space,here on this forum, snd I just wonder how many have dropped out, because of you and your personal brand of biggotry, intolerence and bullying.

Well it does not work with me. I will stand my ground.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Bordersd

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:00 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:Humiliated? When you have not produced one shred of verifisble evidence in sport of anything you have said?


supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
(BTW - you're still quoting superseded codes.)
:D :D :D :roll: :roll:

Yeah... Yeah? , proove it!

(I know ec2007/2004 is likely to be repealed but replaced and probably soon, but it has not yet so it is still the legal position.


Like I said above ....

The European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union was established by Council Regulation (EC) 2007/2004 (26.10.2004, OJ L 349/25.11.2004) having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Community.

This Regulation was later amended by the Regulation (EC) No 863/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007 establishing a mechanism for the creation of Rapid Border Intervention Teams and amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 as regards that mechanism and regulating the tasks and powers of guest officers. It was last amended by the Regulation (EU) No 1168/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 establishing a European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 2:29 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
erolz66 wrote:The CURRENT rules that govern the Schengen Evaluation mechanism,


That's the erolz way: to twist~twist your way out now you've seen STUD humiliated again. :P

- And to turn to using the general cover-all of "CURRENT". :D

Duh, if you hadn't told us there were some 'current' rules, we would never have known.


You are the one who has tried and continues to try to make out that the evaluation process that IS being used in regards to Greece, that could allow the EU to legally suspend Greece from Schengen if they fail to rectify the serious deficiencies identified, is 'obsolete'. This claim, like so many ot the others you have made is clearly untrue and unsupported and unsupportable by any evidence. The rules being used are clearly laid out by the EU themselves in a simple understandable form by anyone who does not have an agenda of 'distraction and distortion by wilful obfuscation'.

You do not like the fact that the EU found Greece seriously deficient, so you just state over and over that the EU did not and has not found Greece seriously deficient, despite any and all evidence that shows beyond any possible doubt that this was the case.

You do not like the fact that under the current active in force Schengen evaluation mechanism rules the EU can suspend Greece from Schengen, since it was found to be seriously deficient and if those deficiencies are not rectified within the three month period defined by the rules - so you just claim the rules are 'obsolete' despite any and all evidence that shows behind any possible doubt that this is indeed the case.

All while projecting your own lying, your own distortion of truth, your own twisting, your own attempts at obfuscation on to those who have consistently pointed out the reality as supported by undeniable primary source evidence.

This is what you do here on this forum. This is what you have always done here on this forum.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:17 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
They don't have to be repealed to be superseded. I've provided ample quotes (over months) from officials stating how these EC evaluations and Schengen powers have had to be adjusted, modified and added to in light of extreme events.

Precedence has been set by what has actually been done.


This a classic lie by gig. The regulations enacted which govern Here
image.png

Are still in force. They are known as ec2007/2004 which as this screen shot shows incorporates the two bits of ammending regulations. That is how it works. The regulations are named according to the primary legislation until that us repealed and replaced in Entirity, That is because the amending legislation has no independant life outside of the primary legilation.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Bordersd

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:46 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Humiliated? When you have not produced one shred of verifisble evidence in sport of anything you have said?


supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
(BTW - you're still quoting superseded codes.)
:D :D :D :roll: :roll:

Yeah... Yeah? , proove it!

(I know ec2007/2004 is likely to be repealed but replaced and probably soon, but it has not yet so it is still the legal position.


Like I said above ....

The European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union was established by Council Regulation (EC) 2007/2004 (26.10.2004, OJ L 349/25.11.2004) having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Community.

This Regulation was later amended by the Regulation (EC) No 863/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 July 2007 establishing a mechanism for the creation of Rapid Border Intervention Teams and amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 as regards that mechanism and regulating the tasks and powers of guest officers. It was last amended by the Regulation (EU) No 1168/2011 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 amending Council Regulation (EC) No 2007/2004 establishing a European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union.


The two items you mention do not repeal or replace ec2007/2004 but amend it, thatb is to say make they only changes to it. I have already quoted and refered to the consoldated rules, which consist of the primary legislation, 2007/2004' and the two subsidiary pieces of amending legilstion, 863/2007 and 1168/2011', which as amending legislation have no independent life outside of 2007/2004. The whole body is known as ec2007/2004. See the title of the consolidated regulation where the amendments have been engrossed into to the primary legislation.

image.png


The key point is that the section of the primary legislation which clearly states the responsibility for control of external borders rests with Member states has NOT been amended let alone repealed, where there must be an enacted regulation to amend or repeal that statement. That you have conspicuously failed to point to, it does not exist, rather you have suggested various nebulous ways which do not conform to EU Law on changing EU law as tonhow for some very vague reason laws suddendly cease to apply.

However your primary premise that everyone else but Greece is responsible for the control of Greek external borders is wrong. Even the document you sought to rely upon with proposed changes stated that would remain the position, but with greater powers.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:46 pm

The evidence speaks for itself - that you are quoting outdated data that has been amended (which you failed to mention) and will be 'repealed' (according to your face saving confession) and this is because it is obsolete and ignored by what has come to pass in reality.

It proves what I said, that you have scoured historical and meaningless 'laws' to support your Greek-hating campaign and it in fact has no bearing on the events that are unfolding.

Continue and you will carry on looking ever more ridiculous.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby supporttheunderdog » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:15 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:The evidence speaks for itself - that you are quoting outdated data that has been amended (which you failed to mention) and will be 'repealed' (according to your face saving confession) and this is because it is obsolete and ignored by what has come to pass in reality.

It proves what I said, that you have scoured historical and meaningless 'laws' to support your Greek-hating campaign and it in fact has no bearing on the events that are unfolding.

Continue and you will carry on looking ever more ridiculous.


Lisr.liar.liar.

These laws are still valid unless and util they are repealed, and these are the laws under which FRontex is still operating, including in Greece.

They still provide that Greece is responsible for its borders.

That I understand will likely still remain the position, except that the EU through frontex will have a right to step in when, ss in this case, A country fucks up such that in the face of an obvious crises they do nothing effective to deal with it. Greece should have been calling for help long before December but they needed a kick up the arse from the evaluation to do it. Sequence.. November, the evaluation. December, Greece asks for help.

Nothing face saving about pointing out that the law is likley to be repealed. Rather you are trying to distort and evade the point that your claim about shared responsibility for Greeces borders, so you could try to divest Greece of its responsibility for being found to have serious deficiencies, is wrong, wrong, wrong.

YOU EVEN DEMONSTRATED HOW SICK IN THE HEAD YOU WERE BY LINKING THE BELGIUM BOMBINGS TO BELGIAN CRITICISM OF GREECE AS THOUGH IT WAS SOME SORT OF DESERVED PUNISHMENT, WHEN AS THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THE TERRORISTS WERE USING THE REFUGEE ROUTE INTO GREECE TO GAIN ENTRY TO THE SCHENGEN AREA AS THEY KNEW THEY WOULD NOT BE CHECKED, DUE TO THE SERIOUS DEFICIENCIES , WHICH YOU DENIED EXISTED, AND WHICH YOU WERE IMPLYING WERE IN ANY EVENT SOMEONE ELSES FAULT, EG BELGIUM, FOR NOT DOING THINGS IN MONITORING THE ENTRY OF IRREGULAR MIGRANTS THROUGH GREECE''S BORDERS, WHICH IN FACT THEY WERE NOT OBLIGED TO DO.

NOW ELSEWHERE YOU HAVE SOUGHT TO IMPUTE THE GOODNESS OF SOME GREEK INDIVIDUALS TO THE WHOL E OF GREECE. NOW YOU CLAIM TO BE GREEK. IF THAT ATTITUDE WERE SO THE USING YOUR LOGIC OF THE ONE TO THE MANY THEN GREEKS IN MY VIEW SHOULD ALL SUCK. I DO NOT HOWEVER APPLY THE ONE TO THE MANY. THAT IS A RACIST GENERALISATION. I PUT IT DOWN SOLELY TO YOUR MENTAL ABERTATION, SO YOU SUCK.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:48 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:These laws are still valid unless and util they are repealed,


Not when they have been amended. It's the amendment that's valid and you're still quoting 12 year old laws that have been amended a few times since then. I showed you one. There are further amendments.
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Re: Shared Management of Europe's External Borders

Postby erolz66 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:54 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:These laws are still valid unless and util they are repealed,


Not when they have been amended. It's the amendment that's valid and you're still quoting 12 year old laws that have been amended a few times since then. I showed you one. There are further amendments.


Despite all your efforts to distort and obfuscate and twist over months now, reality remains exactly the same.

There have been and are NO amendments that mean the EU Commission does not have a legal duty and a right to evaluate individual members states implementation of that states obligations of Schengen rules within that member state.
There have been and are NO amendments that mean if in such a evaluation it is found that that member states is 'seriously deficient' in meeting ITS obligations , the Commission is not required to then make a list of recommendations that the member state concerned should implement in order to rectify the identified serious deficiencies OF that member state.
There have been and are NO amendments that mean the EU Council, on receipt of such recommendations from the Commission can not then, via an implementing decision of the Council, require the member state concerned to rectify the deficiencies and placing upon them a three month deadline to do so.
There have been and are NO amendments that mean that if the member state concerned fails to rectify the identified serious deficiencies within the three month deadline, the EU Council can not then suspend that member state from Schengen for up to 2 years.
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