Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Can anyone stoop lower in their relentless posting to mitigate Turkey's atrocities?

How DISGRACEFUL of you to liken Turkey's evil conduct in deliberately killing thousands and carrying out genocide against whole nations to that of a "momentary lapse", an accident where a little boy was killed!

Your aims to exonerate Turkey are disgusting!

I was talking about how 'giving in to hatred' is a choice.

I don't care for your pedestrian philosophy on 'choice'! Your hypocrisy on this matter is amply demonstrated by an inability to choose not to feel "hurt" when you are "wrong".

I am not stupid to your methods to absolve Turkey of crimes - CRIMES - NOT ACCIDENTS - committed in Cyprus and elsewhere!

You are thoroughly dishonest in your excuses.

[Pyrpolizer]

Unfortunately exactly the same thing happens in the occupied. Carry a video camera with you and start shooting in the occupied you may end up in prison for no reason!
The excuse or reason call it whatever you like is you were shooting near a "military area"
It almost happened to myself when a kind TC approached me and advised me to stop shooting as it was risky...

Do you think there are no areas within the RoC within which it is prescribed to take photographs, video, use binoculars ? That doing such in these areas could not potentially lead to some kind of investigation and even prosecution ? Please do not think I am saying the degree in the RoC is necessary the same, but I think there is a similarity of 'principal' no ? Could I really walk around with impunity in the South outside say an army base, peering in with binoculars and filming and photographing without someone coming to investigate what I was up to ? I doubt I could do so in the UK or USA or the RoC to be honest.

Personally in an age of the internet and google maps, I think such laws and 'sensitivity' to such things is ludicrous and are these days 'artefacts' of 'inertia' rather than actual need, but I do question if it such things are unique to the north, as a matter of principal if not degree ?

The vast majority of ROC's military camps are far away from towns in areas where a tourist or visitor would have nothing to video tape other than the military camp itself. Hence if arrested for doing it then there would be a 99% chance he was spying.
Now you tell me where the hell is the military area at the other side of Ledras street??
The answer is everywhere! They consider every outpost a military "secret" LOL
So what would be the chance of an unsuspected tourist or GC videotaping the area, be_guilty_of_spying_ if arrested and charged? 0-1%??

My point is in the first case the person would KNOW he was doing something wrong, in the 2nd case he would be taken out of surprise, be charged-suffer police brutality possibly end up in prison for no reason

[erolz66]

Do you know why? Because while they were suffering people from the same "enemy camp" stood by them /helped then/shared their pain/ showed empathy.

Certainly in some cases this play a factor but I have specific memory of 'media coverage' of a TC and GC who had both personally suffered horribly, who chose to stand up together to express 'not giving into hate' and who's cases were not about having been helped by individuals of the other community at the time they were suffering the tragedies they did. I will try and find the actual articles if I can and have time.

In the end I made up my mind that these things happen when a place is run by the military-it's not because of the people themselves are bad.Similar things were going on in Greece under the Junta.

There is no doubt that the north is highly militarised. It is also true that the civilian police in the north are under the control of the Turkish army and not the civilian government (or pseudo government if you prefer). Some thing that I am not a fan off myself and would like changed - though in discussion with a TC here, a very cogent one, they did make a case for it being better to have the police under army control on the simple basis that it made corruption much more expensive and thus harder (bribing a General of an army of a country of 90 million people is just more expensive than a police chief of a population of few hundred thousands).

Would I 'mess' with a TC police person in the same way I might, if in the right mood do so with a British one ? No I would not. But then neither would I do so with a ROC police person either.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Yes, I recall some news about two Dutch people disappearing after they were accosted by some Turkish troops for being too close. I never found out what happened to them. Then again, of course, we have had killings just for "being there", touching their flags etc.

Taken 5 the sequel ? More like Fantasia the sequel I suspect.

Wrong!


Dutch seek information about tourist arrests
By Nathan Morley

DUTCH diplomats are urgently looking into reports that two of their citizens have been arrested by Turkish Cypriot police in Famagusta.

The two men, who are understood to be on a package holiday, were arrested yesterday for allegedly taking photographs near several abandoned hotels in the Varosha district of Famagusta.

Despite being sealed off by wire fencing, the area is popular with tourists who often take photographs of the decaying buildings from a nearby beach.

Varosha, which has been a ghost town since 1974, is occupied by Turkish troops and used as a military base.

A spokesman for the Dutch Embassy in Nicosia told the Cyprus Mail that they were aware of the arrests and were “not prepared to discuss or make comment on the case at this point.”

However, a spokesman for the Dutch Foreign Ministry speaking from Amsterdam, confirmed that the men had been detained and that the Netherlands government was seeking information from the Turkish Cypriots.

“We actually know very little about this incident at the moment, we are trying to look further into the situation and discover what is actually happening on the ground,” he said.

Media in northern Cyprus reported last night a police investigation has been launched, while the cameras of the two men, aged 26 and 34, have been confiscated.

Several Turkish Cypriot radio channels claimed that the men have denied taking photographs inside a restricted military zone – a serious offence in the heavily fortified north.

An assessment of the men’s photographs is being conducted by experts.

cyprus20071.html

[erolz66]

The vast majority of ROC's military camps are far away from towns in areas where a tourist or visitor would have nothing to video tape other than the military camp itself. Hence if arrested for doing it then there would be a 99% chance he was spying.

Well I have at times though about shooting some video outside and around the army camp at the roundabout not far from the Agios Dometios crossing point and not as a spy, but decided that such probably was not a good idea. Anyway I accept that by degree the north is different to south, as the UK or Germany is different by degree to the RoC. I still think that by principal, filming around areas considered 'military' in any of them is likely to lead to 'investigation'.

[erolz66]

Wrong!

It was a light hearted comment and the fantasia part was to the implication that they were arrested and never heard from again.

it is remarkable how quickly and efficiently and easily you can find historic posts (from 2008 in this case) when you want to

[erolz66]

I don't care for ....

The list of things 'you do not care for', is legion. Press reports, EU Commission documents, EU Council implementing decisions, dictionary definitions of words , logic, statements from individuals within the EU. All things you 'do not care for' when it suits and yet also become 'gospel' when they do suit.

Your whole premise , that my only objective here is based on exonerating and defending Turkey and that is what I do and always do and always have done, is flawed. If that were really true in reality then there would be no post from me disparaging Erdogan, no posts saying that 'what happened to TC pre 74 does not justify or legitimise what happened post 74' and such like.

Showing such posts would be pointless however because 'evidence' is just yet another of those things that 'you do not care for' when it suits.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Showing such posts would be pointless however because 'evidence' is just yet another of those things that 'you do not care for' when it suits.

I think you might finally have realised you have gone too far and have nothing to offer in your defence of the underhanded way in which you have behaved!

You are a Turkey-supporting cliché !

[erolz66]

Showing such posts would be pointless however because 'evidence' is just yet another of those things that 'you do not care for' when it suits.

I think you might finally have realised you have gone too far and have nothing to offer in your defence of the underhanded way in which you have behaved!

You are a Turkey-supporting cliché !

So are you saying if I DO show such posts, you will accept that actually the premise that all I do here is try and exonerate Turkey - always, is not true ?

You know why I find it hard to believe you would or even could do this ? Because I have shown exactly such posts in the past more than once and yet you still just go on and on regardless of such evidence as if it did not exist.

Or are you trying to say something else - I really can not tell ? Please do explain what in is my behaviour that you consider underhand , in this thread or generally. What specifically , according to the gsopel of GiG 'went to far' ? Or just stick to your slogans without any explanation, which is more likely I suspect.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Not every post here criticizes Turkey. But when one does - out you come .....

That's proof enough.

[Actually, I still feel sick I am 'communicating' with someone who tries to exonerate Turkey by drawing on a story about 'an accident' that killed a little boy! Excuse me if I take some leave. ]