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Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Do you think Turkey's many atrocities (e.g. the invasion of Cyprus) are forgivable:


Note: Your vote in this poll is NOT confidential. Your username will be displayed under the option(s) you select

Yes - because they were momentary mistakes
0
No votes
 
Yes - because they were accidents
0
No votes
 
No - because they were intentional
4
100%
 
B25, GreekIslandGirl, Oceanside50, Pyrpolizer
Yes - but for other reasons (please state)
0
No votes
 
No - but for other reasons (please state)
0
No votes
 
 
Total votes : 4

Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Lordo » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:55 pm

johnoddy wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...my dislike of "Greeks", is only equal to my dislike of "Turks". Although i can respect a person (as an individual) for their opinion, having allowed me, mine. Boors, bullies, and murderers are another story.

...i never saw Cyprus as Greek, i always saw Cyprus as Cypriot, so did my cousin the closest i had to a brother and the rest of my family, actually. Many years later with his sister we recalled those wonderful nights together under the stars, when we were younger, and before the coup. She cried for the shame, because she never knew that the Flag of Cyprus represented her, then. I cried and felt the shame of knowing that the Flag of Greece could never represent me, and as a Greek i felt the shame of having to forgive those who could not understand my shame.

...i know there is a man behind the door of my great uncle's i am afraid to see. All these years where i have expressed the loving nature of one who follows, the way, i fear most how i would fail myself with him.

...and what of my dear friend Grivas, the brother, is he dead, his story untold; that would be a shame, because he was as great a man and maybe greater as a man because he knew when to stop, and on the holidays, although the "Greeks" would spit on him (i remember) he did not say a word.

My thoughts and understanding go out to you my OP, because it is a struggle for all of us, because i sense you need this support, and because i believe your intentions are for goodness; cheers.

@johnoddy, welcome. a question for you i have never found the answer to; of the UN soldiers stationed in Cyprus how many died and from whom?
..although you were shot at, i have been led to believe that, in all these years, not one of the UN Forces were killed, or injured, by a Grecophone in action; is this true?



I can certainly say that none of my Regiment, at that time, were killed or injured and to my recollection the only mortality was due to a road accident. We were under strict instructions never to get involved in any conflict hence we could only observe and report any atrocities we came across. We were issued with 5 rounds that were only to be used if we felt our lives were in danger, we could not use them in order to protect civilians, we felt helpless and, at times used our own bodies to protect civilians from groups of GNG, it was a hopeless situation and we felt like toothless guard dogs.

and yet there are greek cypriots here who do not believe the the turkish cypriots were under any threat.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:05 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote: I don't see her reaction as exceptional. I don't think she actively CHOSE to not hate. It's more normal to feel grief, anger and loss after an accident or a mistake.


And I find the certainty you have about this remarkable given that presumably you have not even seen the program in question. I first saw this story related on Gogglebox. This is a program that records a range of 'normal peoples' reactions to TV programs they have watched that week. The reaction amongst the 'normal people' on gogglebox when it was announced the court had found the man guilty (due to negligence on his part - not an 'accident') and only sentenced him to a non custodial 12 months community service, was universal shock at the apparent leniency of the sentence. The reaction when the mother was then shown doing what she did, was again universal. One of suprise and awe and admiration for her. Sure gogglebox only has 4 or 5 families reactions but I suggest that even those low numbers strongly suggest that 'other peoples' reactions to this story (that hey did actually see) is more 'typical' of what is 'normal' and aligns with mine as expressed here (who also actually saw the story) than your , as someone who has not see it and who has filtered my account of it through their own needs (turning negligence into accident or mistake for example).

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Turkey has done a LOT of bad things - deliberately - and continues with many of those BAD things. This is NOT behavior that is forgivable.


I can only repeat what I have said so many times before now. I am NOT suggesting you or indeed anyone should forgive specific actions by Turkey. I could repeat also what I am suggesting, but really what would be the point, given that you will just ignore that yet again ?
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:50 pm

erolz66 wrote: ... I first saw this story related on Gogglebox. This is a program ....


:lol: :lol: :lol: :P :roll:
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby erolz66 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:04 pm

So you at least have a chance to see that which it is that you have such certainties about, without having seen it, and certainties not just about what your reaction would be , but what other peoples would be (normal) and that you choose to ridicule, here it is (it is 6 minutes long)



I maintain that the mothers behaviour to this tragic event was indeed remarkable and not 'normal'. Was indeed an example of an individual choosing not to 'give in to hate' despite having understandable cause to do so.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:25 pm

OK - so your idea of "normal" is what three British TV viewers of (probably) the lower levels of educational attainment portray. :roll: :P :lol:

Fine, you are entitled to your view.

But what on earth does forgiveness for the cause of an accident have to do with Turkey's atrocities in Cyprus?
[which is frankly what I care about]

P.S. Leave the spin out, please.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:24 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:OK - so your idea of "normal" is what three British TV viewers of (probably) the lower levels of educational attainment portray. :roll: :P :lol:


Where as yours, stated with such absolute certainty, not just your own but certainty about what others would think, and even before you had seen the clip itself, was based on ? My idea of normal is actually based on what I think is normal. The clip seems to show at least some evidence that some unpartizan (to Cyprus issues or our clashes) others share my view. So far the only evidence that others share yours - is your assertion that they do, as far as I can see. In any case as for the people here, they can now (as long as it does not get taken down for copyright violation) see for themselves, if they are interested, and decided if they think this mothers behaviour was 'remarkable' or 'normal' in their opinion.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:But what on earth does forgiveness for the cause of an accident have to do with Turkey's atrocities in Cyprus?


I have tried repeatedly to explain this as plainly and calmly as I know how and yet you still fail to 'get' what it is I am trying to get across. It feels to me that this failure of you to 'get' it is actually wilful on your part, that actually you do 'get' it but for 'tactical' reasons you make out you do not. However lets assume for the moment that this is not the case, that it is not wilful on your part and your failure to 'get' what I am trying to say is entirely my fault and down to my lack of ability to explain it, so I will try once more to get the same idea across in a slightly different way.

This woman no doubt hates the 'act' of a 'momentary lapse' that leads to the death of an innocent child. However whilst hating the act she also chooses to not let hate for that act become a hate for the young man himself who's act killed her son. She chooses to not 'give in to hate'.

You hate the acts of Turkey that have caused pain an suffering to you and yours. You have a choice as to if you try to not let this hatred for such acts become a hatred of Turks and Turkey generally, or not to try and do this. To chose to give into hate or not.

I hate the acts of Greece and GC that have caused pain and suffering to me and mine. I have a choice as to if I try to not let this hatred for such acts become a hatred of Greeks and GC and Greece generally, or not try and do this. To chose to give into hate or not.

Which we as Cypriots choose to do - to either try and resist 'giving into hate' or not, I believe has a direct impact on the chances of if we can succeed in building a better future for all Cypriots that that which we have achieved to date , or not achieving it. The more we try to resist 'giving in to hate' the greater our chance of success. The more we fail to do this the less our chance of success.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Sotos » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:35 am

Lordo wrote:
johnoddy wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...my dislike of "Greeks", is only equal to my dislike of "Turks". Although i can respect a person (as an individual) for their opinion, having allowed me, mine. Boors, bullies, and murderers are another story.

...i never saw Cyprus as Greek, i always saw Cyprus as Cypriot, so did my cousin the closest i had to a brother and the rest of my family, actually. Many years later with his sister we recalled those wonderful nights together under the stars, when we were younger, and before the coup. She cried for the shame, because she never knew that the Flag of Cyprus represented her, then. I cried and felt the shame of knowing that the Flag of Greece could never represent me, and as a Greek i felt the shame of having to forgive those who could not understand my shame.

...i know there is a man behind the door of my great uncle's i am afraid to see. All these years where i have expressed the loving nature of one who follows, the way, i fear most how i would fail myself with him.

...and what of my dear friend Grivas, the brother, is he dead, his story untold; that would be a shame, because he was as great a man and maybe greater as a man because he knew when to stop, and on the holidays, although the "Greeks" would spit on him (i remember) he did not say a word.

My thoughts and understanding go out to you my OP, because it is a struggle for all of us, because i sense you need this support, and because i believe your intentions are for goodness; cheers.

@johnoddy, welcome. a question for you i have never found the answer to; of the UN soldiers stationed in Cyprus how many died and from whom?
..although you were shot at, i have been led to believe that, in all these years, not one of the UN Forces were killed, or injured, by a Grecophone in action; is this true?



I can certainly say that none of my Regiment, at that time, were killed or injured and to my recollection the only mortality was due to a road accident. We were under strict instructions never to get involved in any conflict hence we could only observe and report any atrocities we came across. We were issued with 5 rounds that were only to be used if we felt our lives were in danger, we could not use them in order to protect civilians, we felt helpless and, at times used our own bodies to protect civilians from groups of GNG, it was a hopeless situation and we felt like toothless guard dogs.

and yet there are greek cypriots here who do not believe the the turkish cypriots were under any threat.


Of course they were under threat AFTER they decided to side with foreign powers and attack the native Cypriot people. What did you think asshole... that you can attack us, demand partition, take away our democratic rights, help the colonialists to fight us, help the Turks invade us ... and you would come out of this unscathed? ASSHOLE! YOU are the aggressors in Cyprus. It is YOU who keep invading our island. In fact the first ancestors of the TCs are the Ottoman soldiers who invaded us and killed 10s of thousands of innocent people. And your mentality of oppressing the native people has NEVER changed since then... you invaded us again, you brought more foreign Settlers and gave to them our homes and you still occupy 1/3rd of our island. Our only fault is that we didn't have the power to kill enough of you. If, like the allies in WWII, we had the power to bomb you to the ground and even nuke Turkish cities, then Cyprus would be free today and you wouldn't be able to cause problems to us anymore.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:44 am

johnoddy wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...my dislike of "Greeks", is only equal to my dislike of "Turks". Although i can respect a person (as an individual) for their opinion, having allowed me, mine. Boors, bullies, and murderers are another story.

...i never saw Cyprus as Greek, i always saw Cyprus as Cypriot, so did my cousin the closest i had to a brother and the rest of my family, actually. Many years later with his sister we recalled those wonderful nights together under the stars, when we were younger, and before the coup. She cried for the shame, because she never knew that the Flag of Cyprus represented her, then. I cried and felt the shame of knowing that the Flag of Greece could never represent me, and as a Greek i felt the shame of having to forgive those who could not understand my shame.

...i know there is a man behind the door of my great uncle's i am afraid to see. All these years where i have expressed the loving nature of one who follows, the way, i fear most how i would fail myself with him.

...and what of my dear friend Grivas, the brother, is he dead, his story untold; that would be a shame, because he was as great a man and maybe greater as a man because he knew when to stop, and on the holidays, although the "Greeks" would spit on him (i remember) he did not say a word.

My thoughts and understanding go out to you my OP, because it is a struggle for all of us, because i sense you need this support, and because i believe your intentions are for goodness; cheers.

@johnoddy, welcome. a question for you i have never found the answer to; of the UN soldiers stationed in Cyprus how many died and from whom?
..although you were shot at, i have been led to believe that, in all these years, not one of the UN Forces were killed, or injured, by a Grecophone in action; is this true?



I can certainly say that none of my Regiment, at that time, were killed or injured and to my recollection the only mortality was due to a road accident. We were under strict instructions never to get involved in any conflict hence we could only observe and report any atrocities we came across. We were issued with 5 rounds that were only to be used if we felt our lives were in danger, we could not use them in order to protect civilians, we felt helpless and, at times used our own bodies to protect civilians from groups of GNG, it was a hopeless situation and we felt like toothless guard dogs.


I have heard of three Canadians who died by sniper fire, i am told that the number is around fourteen, but i can't find solid sources for the info i have...
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby MR-from-NG » Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:56 pm

Sotos wrote:
Lordo wrote:
johnoddy wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...my dislike of "Greeks", is only equal to my dislike of "Turks". Although i can respect a person (as an individual) for their opinion, having allowed me, mine. Boors, bullies, and murderers are another story.

...i never saw Cyprus as Greek, i always saw Cyprus as Cypriot, so did my cousin the closest i had to a brother and the rest of my family, actually. Many years later with his sister we recalled those wonderful nights together under the stars, when we were younger, and before the coup. She cried for the shame, because she never knew that the Flag of Cyprus represented her, then. I cried and felt the shame of knowing that the Flag of Greece could never represent me, and as a Greek i felt the shame of having to forgive those who could not understand my shame.

...i know there is a man behind the door of my great uncle's i am afraid to see. All these years where i have expressed the loving nature of one who follows, the way, i fear most how i would fail myself with him.

...and what of my dear friend Grivas, the brother, is he dead, his story untold; that would be a shame, because he was as great a man and maybe greater as a man because he knew when to stop, and on the holidays, although the "Greeks" would spit on him (i remember) he did not say a word.

My thoughts and understanding go out to you my OP, because it is a struggle for all of us, because i sense you need this support, and because i believe your intentions are for goodness; cheers.

@johnoddy, welcome. a question for you i have never found the answer to; of the UN soldiers stationed in Cyprus how many died and from whom?
..although you were shot at, i have been led to believe that, in all these years, not one of the UN Forces were killed, or injured, by a Grecophone in action; is this true?



I can certainly say that none of my Regiment, at that time, were killed or injured and to my recollection the only mortality was due to a road accident. We were under strict instructions never to get involved in any conflict hence we could only observe and report any atrocities we came across. We were issued with 5 rounds that were only to be used if we felt our lives were in danger, we could not use them in order to protect civilians, we felt helpless and, at times used our own bodies to protect civilians from groups of GNG, it was a hopeless situation and we felt like toothless guard dogs.

and yet there are greek cypriots here who do not believe the the turkish cypriots were under any threat.


Of course they were under threat AFTER they decided to side with foreign powers and attack the native Cypriot people. What did you think asshole... that you can attack us, demand partition, take away our democratic rights, help the colonialists to fight us, help the Turks invade us ... and you would come out of this unscathed? ASSHOLE! YOU are the aggressors in Cyprus. It is YOU who keep invading our island. In fact the first ancestors of the TCs are the Ottoman soldiers who invaded us and killed 10s of thousands of innocent people. And your mentality of oppressing the native people has NEVER changed since then... you invaded us again, you brought more foreign Settlers and gave to them our homes and you still occupy 1/3rd of our island. Our only fault is that we didn't have the power to kill enough of you. If, like the allies in WWII, we had the power to bomb you to the ground and even nuke Turkish cities, then Cyprus would be free today and you wouldn't be able to cause problems to us anymore.


Don't be so mad with us Sotos. Think about it, how many of your women and girls would have escaped from the hot-bloodied Ottomans? If you really think about this and do a mathematical calculation there is every chance you are as Turkish as me or Lordo is :lol:
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:09 pm

erolz66 wrote:I hate the acts of Greece and GC that have caused pain and suffering to me and mine.


You mean you hate that we put up some resistance to your invasions, genocides, and continued occupation? :roll:

You're sounding like some over-greedy imperialist, stating that he hates the Native American Indians because they fought back when attacked by cowboys and colonialists.
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