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Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Do you think Turkey's many atrocities (e.g. the invasion of Cyprus) are forgivable:


Note: Your vote in this poll is NOT confidential. Your username will be displayed under the option(s) you select

Yes - because they were momentary mistakes
0
No votes
 
Yes - because they were accidents
0
No votes
 
No - because they were intentional
4
100%
 
B25, GreekIslandGirl, Oceanside50, Pyrpolizer
Yes - but for other reasons (please state)
0
No votes
 
No - but for other reasons (please state)
0
No votes
 
 
Total votes : 4

Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:35 am

Here's the context before a story was told to me:

I admit I hate Turkey's actions, many crimes and atrocities carried out in Cyprus (and against other places/peoples).

Someone who doesn't want me to hate Turkey wrote:You do not have to relentlessly display here on this forum a hatred of all Turks and everything connected to Turkey. You choose to do it.


A sad story is presented for guidance (abbreviated):

Man hit a car with a mother and son in it.
Son died
Man Found guilty
Sentenced to 12 months community service and a 12 months driving ban.
Mother found sentence was 'fair' because it was a 'momentary lapse' and the man was young and good and had made a mistake.


[Full story: cyprus44609-20.html ]

Storyteller helps reader with reaching the moral of the story:

What point am I trying to make here, to get across ?


The message - (and it's generally a good message ....... but, for Turkey????? :? ):

I do make a conscious effort to try and not give in to hatred. What is more I believe that if we are to find a better future for all Cypriots than that which we have managed to create to date, then we all or large numbers of us have to aspire to similar.


However, I have trouble applying this sad story with its generally good message to that of how I feel about Turkey's actions in invading Cyprus and carrying out its many other crimes and violations.

Try as I might, I cannot treat Turkey's crimes the same as an 'accident' or a 'momentary mistake' which could be similarly forgiven.

How do you feel?
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby johnoddy » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:19 pm

GIG, I was here, in Cyprus, in 1974. We were, at the time, the UN’s instant reaction battalion and I was stationed at Polis but manned OP’s from Paphos to Yalia. I was, at the time, an 18 year old with little grasp of the political situation. Our main objective was to protect unsurrendered Turkish villages and the general population. The OP at Paphos, in the old town by the mosque, is where I came under fire for the first time, shot at by the GNG. It was also where I watched the GNG torture and murder a Turkish baker whom they accused of spying.
We moved village after village of Cypriot Turks up to Nicosia, villages that had been their homes for centuries, they were allowed one bed sheet in which to pack their entire life and then run the gauntlet of Greeks throwing stones and hurling abuse at them. Greeks who they had lived side by side with over decades and who had been their friends.
I agree; it was Turkey who were the initial aggressor but if you’d walked into some of the unarmed Turkish villages after the GNG had been there then you would not have thought so. It was not the Cypriot Turks who started or even wanted that war but it was them that suffered for it.
After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness? Turkey is not perfect, far from it but neither is Greece, it’s time to live and let live and if you should have any feelings let it be for the poor souls, on both sides, who lost their lives needlessly in a conflict that wasn’t of their making.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Lordo » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:44 pm

what about the crimes roc committed against the tcs and the greaks committed in anatolia against the terggs.

why are you so stupid.

what about what the russians done to chechens and the greaks to the terggs in greace.

what about the french did to the algerians and what about that the israilies are doing to the palestenians.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Sotos » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:50 pm

johnoddy, the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots were (and continue to be) in this together.... partners in the crime against Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots attacked us since 1958 and they publicly proclaimed that their aim was to steal our lands and achieve partition. We were attacked and we were defending ourselves... as simple as that. Or maybe you want to equate the Nazis/Axis and the Allies in WWII as well? Because the allies bombed civilians and they even nuked 2 large cities. Would you therefore say "The Nazis were not perfect but neither were the Allies"? Sorry, but you can not equate the victim with the aggressors just because the side of the aggressors also had some civilian casualties (way less than what we had). No we are not perfect but the Turks are not merely imperfect... they are the aggressors who oppress the native Cypriot people for centuries. Just because you were tasked with the protection of the Turkish Cypriots and you had no idea of the atrocities and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries (and the history of Cyprus) this doesn't mean that you should not learn the whole story... otherwise your opinion can only be invalid.

After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness?


No. Our hate for those who occupy our ancestral lands grows bigger and bigger which each passing year. The Turks will be forgiven (to answer the poll) when our lands are returned to us and they show respect to the majority native population.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Jerry » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:05 pm

johnoddy wrote:GIG, I was here, in Cyprus, in 1974. We were, at the time, the UN’s instant reaction battalion and I was stationed at Polis but manned OP’s from Paphos to Yalia. I was, at the time, an 18 year old with little grasp of the political situation. Our main objective was to protect unsurrendered Turkish villages and the general population. The OP at Paphos, in the old town by the mosque, is where I came under fire for the first time, shot at by the GNG. It was also where I watched the GNG torture and murder a Turkish baker whom they accused of spying.
We moved village after village of Cypriot Turks up to Nicosia, villages that had been their homes for centuries, they were allowed one bed sheet in which to pack their entire life and then run the gauntlet of Greeks throwing stones and hurling abuse at them. Greeks who they had lived side by side with over decades and who had been their friends.
I agree; it was Turkey who were the initial aggressor but if you’d walked into some of the unarmed Turkish villages after the GNG had been there then you would not have thought so. It was not the Cypriot Turks who started or even wanted that war but it was them that suffered for it.
After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness? Turkey is not perfect, far from it but neither is Greece, it’s time to live and let live and if you should have any feelings let it be for the poor souls, on both sides, who lost their lives needlessly in a conflict that wasn’t of their making.


I can't dispute what you say but Turkey had long wanted to regain a significant military presence on Cyprus. It knew what the consequences would probably be for vulnerable Turkish Cypriots but carried on regardless. Emboldened by the fact that Turkish forces were just a few miles across the sea, leaders like Denktash pursued a policy of wanting more than their fair share of Cyprus and its governance. The majority Greek Cypriots had suffered 300 years of Ottoman dominance and they were determined not to suffer the same fate again, initially they looked for union with Greece but Makarios changed direction when the Junta came to power. It was the fascists in Athens that gave Turkey the excuse it was looking for not the majority of Greek Cypriots.

Here's what U Thant said in1965,
The Secretary-General of the United Nations (U Thant) in 1965:

"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots"

(UN Report S/6426 10.6.65)

Turkey's current illegal occupation and colonisation of Cyprus and the exodus of tens of thousands of TCs from the north simply proves my point.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby erolz66 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:33 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:I admit I hate Turkey's actions, many crimes and atrocities carried out in Cyprus (and against other places/peoples).


Hating Turkey's actions is not the same as allowing that hatred for those actions to translate into a hatred for all and any Turks , just because they are Turks (or people you label as such who are not Turks for that matter) or for any and every action Turkey takes regardless of what that action is.

Here religious 'philosophy' has something to say 'hate the sin love the sinner'.

I do make a conscious effort to try and not give in to hatred. What is more I believe that if we are to find a better future for all Cypriots than that which we have managed to create to date, then we all or large numbers of us have to aspire to similar.


I said that and I stand by it. You can either give in to hatred or you can strive to resist the drive to give in to hatred. It does not matter how justified that hatred is. It is a choice that each and every one of us can and does make. That was the point of my 'story'. I believe that the path to a better Cyprus for all Cypriots than we have had in past and to date will require Cypriots in general terms to choose to not 'give into hate' no matter how understandable giving in to that hate is. To make the choice. I believe I try to not give in to hate (and it really does not matter what the basis of my hate may be, if it is justified or not). I think all of those of us who truly want a better Cyprus, those of us that are not STILL just trying to 'win' the same battles that got us where we are today, must do the same.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:Try as I might, I cannot treat Turkey's crimes the same as an 'accident' or a 'momentary mistake' which could be similarly forgiven.


No one is asking or suggesting that you do this. I can not be and am not responsible for what you 'think' has been said to you, when you simply refuse to even listen when I try to explain why what you think I said (mean) is not what I actually said (mean).

GreekIslandGirl wrote:How do you feel?


I feel that your poll is flawed in so many ways that I have little desire to point out and thus will not be voting in your poll.
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:06 pm

johnoddy wrote:GIG, I was here, in Cyprus, in 1974. We were, at the time, the UN’s instant reaction battalion and I was stationed at Polis but manned OP’s from Paphos to Yalia. I was, at the time, an 18 year old with little grasp of the political situation. Our main objective was to protect unsurrendered Turkish villages and the general population. The OP at Paphos, in the old town by the mosque, is where I came under fire for the first time, shot at by the GNG. It was also where I watched the GNG torture and murder a Turkish baker whom they accused of spying.
We moved village after village of Cypriot Turks up to Nicosia, villages that had been their homes for centuries, they were allowed one bed sheet in which to pack their entire life and then run the gauntlet of Greeks throwing stones and hurling abuse at them. Greeks who they had lived side by side with over decades and who had been their friends.
I agree; it was Turkey who were the initial aggressor but if you’d walked into some of the unarmed Turkish villages after the GNG had been there then you would not have thought so. It was not the Cypriot Turks who started or even wanted that war but it was them that suffered for it.
After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness? Turkey is not perfect, far from it but neither is Greece, it’s time to live and let live and if you should have any feelings let it be for the poor souls, on both sides, who lost their lives needlessly in a conflict that wasn’t of their making.


Welcome John, and thank you for your input.

As you state you were only 18 and uninformed of the political situation. Turkey's crimes against Cyprus didn't start (nor end) in 1974. Before you arrived, there had been over 20 years of direct terrorist activity organised from Turkey and in collusion with the TCs on Cyprus. Maybe you need to look into this for perspective.

Why were you in charge of looking after TCs when Turkey was here to slaughter thousands of Greek Cypriots? Why didn't you protect the Greek Cypriots?
Whilst you were looking out for the fate of one TC baker some 3,000 Greek Cypriots were tortured and killed, 1500 vanished and nearly 200,000 driven from their homes of centuries by the sort of tactics ISIS use right now.

If accused of spying this baker very likely was. Some TCs have come out to admit that despite seeming like nice ordinary people, teachers even, they hid guns, bombs etc for Turkey and took orders. We had one such confession here on CF. Also, false flag operations were rife. - even their political leaders were up to it (Denktash's confession). War is dirty - but you chose to support the ones that Britain supported. Britain supported TCs because they could be relied on to cause harm to Cyprus and Britain did not want to let go of Cyprus (does not want to let go of Cyprus even now).

I'd love to put away my hatred of Turkey (as a political country with a government) and forgive their actions but that can only sincerely happen once they have left Cyprus and stopped their other atrocities on some other people and places.

Why don't you ask Turkey to stop its crimes against humanity? Surely that is what will lead to collective harmony.

And why have you not voted?
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Lordo » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:25 pm

Sotos wrote:johnoddy, the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots were (and continue to be) in this together.... partners in the crime against Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots attacked us since 1958 and they publicly proclaimed that their aim was to steal our lands and achieve partition. We were attacked and we were defending ourselves... as simple as that. Or maybe you want to equate the Nazis/Axis and the Allies in WWII as well? Because the allies bombed civilians and they even nuked 2 large cities. Would you therefore say "The Nazis were not perfect but neither were the Allies"? Sorry, but you can not equate the victim with the aggressors just because the side of the aggressors also had some civilian casualties (way less than what we had). No we are not perfect but the Turks are not merely imperfect... they are the aggressors who oppress the native Cypriot people for centuries. Just because you were tasked with the protection of the Turkish Cypriots and you had no idea of the atrocities and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries (and the history of Cyprus) this doesn't mean that you should not learn the whole story... otherwise your opinion can only be invalid.

After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness?


No. Our hate for those who occupy our ancestral lands grows bigger and bigger which each passing year. The Turks will be forgiven (to answer the poll) when our lands are returned to us and they show respect to the majority native population.

you are talking bullshit again boy. you bastards murdered innocent tcs. may you all burn in hell
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby miltiades » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:32 pm

Lordo wrote:
Sotos wrote:johnoddy, the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots were (and continue to be) in this together.... partners in the crime against Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots attacked us since 1958 and they publicly proclaimed that their aim was to steal our lands and achieve partition. We were attacked and we were defending ourselves... as simple as that. Or maybe you want to equate the Nazis/Axis and the Allies in WWII as well? Because the allies bombed civilians and they even nuked 2 large cities. Would you therefore say "The Nazis were not perfect but neither were the Allies"? Sorry, but you can not equate the victim with the aggressors just because the side of the aggressors also had some civilian casualties (way less than what we had). No we are not perfect but the Turks are not merely imperfect... they are the aggressors who oppress the native Cypriot people for centuries. Just because you were tasked with the protection of the Turkish Cypriots and you had no idea of the atrocities and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries (and the history of Cyprus) this doesn't mean that you should not learn the whole story... otherwise your opinion can only be invalid.

After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness?


No. Our hate for those who occupy our ancestral lands grows bigger and bigger which each passing year. The Turks will be forgiven (to answer the poll) when our lands are returned to us and they show respect to the majority native population.

you are talking bullshit again boy. you bastards murdered innocent tcs. may you all burn in hell

Will there be ...virgins waiting :lol: :lol:
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Re: Poll - And the moral of the story is ....

Postby Lordo » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:49 pm

miltiades wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Sotos wrote:johnoddy, the Turks and the Turkish Cypriots were (and continue to be) in this together.... partners in the crime against Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriots attacked us since 1958 and they publicly proclaimed that their aim was to steal our lands and achieve partition. We were attacked and we were defending ourselves... as simple as that. Or maybe you want to equate the Nazis/Axis and the Allies in WWII as well? Because the allies bombed civilians and they even nuked 2 large cities. Would you therefore say "The Nazis were not perfect but neither were the Allies"? Sorry, but you can not equate the victim with the aggressors just because the side of the aggressors also had some civilian casualties (way less than what we had). No we are not perfect but the Turks are not merely imperfect... they are the aggressors who oppress the native Cypriot people for centuries. Just because you were tasked with the protection of the Turkish Cypriots and you had no idea of the atrocities and the ethnic cleansing committed by the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries (and the history of Cyprus) this doesn't mean that you should not learn the whole story... otherwise your opinion can only be invalid.

After all this time do you not think it is time to put away your hate and bitterness?


No. Our hate for those who occupy our ancestral lands grows bigger and bigger which each passing year. The Turks will be forgiven (to answer the poll) when our lands are returned to us and they show respect to the majority native population.

you are talking bullshit again boy. you bastards murdered innocent tcs. may you all burn in hell

Will there be ...virgins waiting :lol: :lol:

its lucky for you, you actually took part in helping people murder so you will get your 72 virgins in hell old fool.

the trouble with that is there are no virgins in hell so you will end up with 72 old whores from lesbos.
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