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Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

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Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:20 pm

As Europe appeals to any signs of humanity in Turkey's heart to stem the flow of migrants - Turkey continues to treat the refugees like pawns in its power games.

My opinion is that Europe-USA-Russia should take over Turkey and control the situation from within.

Then, redraw the borders to end years of conflicts since Turkey was created. The Kurds can reclaim their homeland, the Greeks regain Asia Minor and be able stop this region being used as the floodgate for Erdogan 'turfing' migrants into the sea.

EU migration summit stalls as Turkey ups demands.

Davutoglu is now expected to push for more funding for infrastructure, health and education refugee aid projects, as well as an easing of visa restrictions and more progress on Turkey’s path to EU accession.
:roll:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... ssels-live
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:43 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:As Europe appeals to any signs of humanity in Turkey's heart to stem the flow of migrants - Turkey continues to treat the refugees like pawns in its power games.


My personal view is that the EU seeks to protect and promote its own interests, just as those countries within the EU seek to do the same within the EU and just as Turkey does the same. I personally do not see any vast differences in individual states placing 'humanity' ahead of their own perceived self interest, in regards to this specific crisis or in general terms.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:My opinion is that Europe-USA-Russia should take over Turkey and control the situation from within.
Then, redraw the borders to end years of conflicts since Turkey was created. The Kurds can reclaim their homeland, the Greeks regain Asia Minor ...


I think you will find that this approach was tried by the allies in the aftermath of WW1, but that it did not pan out quite how those world powers thought it would.

GreekIslandGirl wrote:and be able stop this region being used as the floodgate for Erdogan 'turfing' migrants into the sea.


How does this fit in with the 'humanity' of EU states 'turfing back' migrants too Turkey I wonder, given what I understand of your views with regards to how such people would inevitably be treated in Turkey, that shows no sign of humanity, as a result of this 'turfing back' ?
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:16 am

...indeed, the EU can do more with their money, so that education and healthcare, are the hallmark in an effort to improve capacity building: that in this mass of people, they can through their self representation build the infrastructure they need, by creating educators, not just educated, and Doctors, not just a better wellness (something better than misery).

While Turkey is willing to take on the issue of what so many will do to the Turkish fabric of things in Turkey, solidarity at this point will decide who these Turks will remember as friends. Life goes on, we, that is to say the EU and Turkey, those willing and who care, cannot ignore that this issue, mass migrations, addressing the issue generally, needs improvement and at a faster pace. Talking about a "Green Movement", the technology which follows, the prosperity it promises, i suggest that in its intention there is much which falls into the same sphere(s). I suggest hospitals and other institutional buildings that float into place using blimps, housing structures that are designed around blocks the size of a standard containers (for winter accommodation), education through cellphones, i suggest that these and many more ideas already exist...

...seriously, there is money to be made, and jobs; better housing, better living, better inter-personal skills, are all needed. Why not give the money to the refugees themselves, since they are being asked to stay where they are, (and since Turkey is willing to have them, as Citizens), for some already years. It would not surprise me, if they were plugged in so to speak, a center, a node, that they will become the vanguard for the kind of development Humanity really needs.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:07 pm

Is this Merkel's final joke?

Turkey and EU agree outline of 'one in, one out' deal over Syria refugee crisis


So if Turkey wants to get rid of 2 million people it will then 'turf' 4 million over to Europe? :roll:
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby miltiades » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:22 pm

This incredulous " agreement" of one in one out is beyond belief !
Is Europe ruled by complete idiots, what is the point of sending 1000 or more back and then thak one thousand or more!

The whole situation is laughable, the West have a great deal to answer for the mass influx of mostly muslims into Europe either as genuine refugees or economic migrants.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby erolz66 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:33 pm

Yeah because everyone (meaning only you) knows that Turkey is forcing those migrants that try to reach Europe by irregular means to hand over their life savings to people smugglers and risk get into unsafe boats, against their will.

Or, as seems more likely to me the whole point of this plan is to make it clear to those refugees that are determined to reach European countries, that actually the best way of achieving that goal is not via irregular migration from Turkey to Greece but actually by regular migration achieved by direct, safe transfer from Turkey to EU States

GreekIslandGirl wrote:And I think the refugees should get a say in where they stay.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby erolz66 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:40 pm

miltiades wrote:Is Europe ruled by complete idiots, what is the point of sending 1000 or more back and then thak one thousand or more!


The point surely is, that EU and individual EU countries accept the moral and legal obligation and need to offer sanctuary to people who's lives have been shattered by war but that such can not be done when so many are arriving on EU shores in an irregular manner ? That the priority and need is not to 'keep these people out of Europe entirely' but to have systems in place where by they can reach the safety offered by EU states in a regular manner, rather than by the mass irregular manner they have been to date.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:48 pm

The point, as I see it, is once a precedent has been set and all those who make the illegal crossing are sent back, people will stop bothering to make this dangerous crossing as they know they will just be summarily returned. Initially, Europe will have to take as many people as they return, and this will start out as a high number, but this number should dwindle away to virtually zero once people realise that there is no point.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby Jerry » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:29 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:The point, as I see it, is once a precedent has been set and all those who make the illegal crossing are sent back, people will stop bothering to make this dangerous crossing as they know they will just be summarily returned. Initially, Europe will have to take as many people as they return, and this will start out as a high number, but this number should dwindle away to virtually zero once people realise that there is no point.


Will it? Or will it start a merry-go-round. Make the illegal crossing - get sent back to Turkey - join the queue to gain legitimate entry to the EU. If the migrants in Turkey are not made too welcome or comfortable they will soon figure out how to gain legitimate entry to the EU even if it's delayed by months or even years. The scheme is a bloody nonsense, The EU should help construct better temporary accommodation in Turkey until the refugees can return home.
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Re: Make or break time for Turkish ties to Civilisation!

Postby Maximus » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:38 pm

Jerry wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:The point, as I see it, is once a precedent has been set and all those who make the illegal crossing are sent back, people will stop bothering to make this dangerous crossing as they know they will just be summarily returned. Initially, Europe will have to take as many people as they return, and this will start out as a high number, but this number should dwindle away to virtually zero once people realise that there is no point.


Will it? Or will it start a merry-go-round. Make the illegal crossing - get sent back to Turkey - join the queue to gain legitimate entry to the EU. If the migrants in Turkey are not made too welcome or comfortable they will soon figure out how to gain legitimate entry to the EU even if it's delayed by months or even years. The scheme is a bloody nonsense, The EU should help construct better temporary accommodation in Turkey until the refugees can return home.


European nincompoop leaders do a deal with the devil.

There is no point in this deal. One comes, one gos back, one comes back again and Turkey gets paid for it and continue to play European nincompoop leaders for mugs. On top of that, Europe opens their house to Turks (Read anyone holding Turkish Papers) to come and go freely.

The EU is run by nincompoops.
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