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Visa free travel for Turks to EU

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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Jerry wrote:As I understand it the ROC has always maintained the right to refuse admission to persons who enter Cyprus through illegal ports of entry but in practice allows EU passport holders from the illegally occupied north into the Government controlled south, hence carpetbaggers are allowed free movement but not illegal settlers. Presumably the same would apply to tourists from Turkey arriving in the north. Since there are no direct travel links between the Government controlled ROC and Turkey I don't see the problem.


My understanding is this is a commonly held misconception.

http://ec.europa.eu/cyprus/documents/tu ... enline.pdf

(7) While taking into account the legitimate concerns of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus, it is necessary to enable EU citizens to exercise their rights of free movement within the EU and set the minimum rules for carrying out checks on persons at the line and to ensure the effective surveillance of it, in order to combat the illegal immigration of third country nationals as well as any threat to public security and public policy. It is also necessary to define the conditions under which third country nationals are allowed to cross the line.


I take this to mean it is the Green Line regulation that defines who can cross, including third country nationals.

2) the term "third country national" means any person who is not a citizen of the Union within the meaning of Article 17(1) of the EC Treaty.



3. Third country nationals shall only be allowed to cross the line provided they:
(a) possess either a residence permit issued by the Republic of Cyprus or a valid travel
document and, if required, a valid visa for the Republic of Cyprus, and
(b) do not represent a threat to public policy or public security


There is nothing in the green line regulations that differentiates 'settlers' from third country nationals. Nothing that defines status or right to cross based on 'port of entry'. It is the visa requirements that I believe allow s the RoC to effective stop settlers from being able to cross under the terms of the green line regulations as they currently exist. I could be wrong.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:59 pm

Sotos wrote:How would we know which Turk is a Settler and which is just a tourist? Any Turk crossing the line should be arrested and deported as we would in any case have a right to do. Having a "visa free" status doesn't mean you have the right to enter a country in any way you want. You still need to enter through a legal port of entry. "Visa Free" status does not equal EU citizenship.


I believe that currently the RoC can not refuse to let a Turkish citizen that does have a valid visa for the RoC cross the Green line. What the RoC can and does do is determine that living in the north is grounds for refusing to grant a visa. The green line regulations define, as far as I understand it, who can cross the Green line, as agreed between the RoC and the EU. Those regulations say nothing about 'legal ports of entry', unless I have missed that part which is possible.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:27 pm

Turks will never get visa free travel throughout Europe.

Once their allies, the UK, have their Brexit it's history for enforced Turkey-EU deals.

- Only then might we have progress with the CyProb.

(Unfortunately, Turkey are backing the stay-in-EU campaign so that they continue to have their friends in the club to help them.)
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby Sotos » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:32 pm

Cyprus is a sovereign country and has its own laws. If you can find nothing about 'legal ports of entry' that means that the regular laws apply and there is nothing that takes precedence over them. Is it legal for me to take my private boat, land on some random beach in France and enter that country no questions asked? If yes, then a French person can do the same in Cyprus. If not, then a French person can't come in such a way to Cyprus either. I believe that since Cyprus is not part of Schengen that even EU citizens (let alone foreigners) are legally required to enter from the designed ports of entry. Maybe this would be different if Cyprus was a member of Schengen.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:12 pm

Under Schengen Rules all people entering the Schengen zone must do so through a designated crossing point. All people, incuding all eu citizens must be adequately identified and their entry recorded.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby Jerry » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:16 pm

Travel advice from UK Government.

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine you for illegal entry if you cross into the south, but in practice, the current policy is not to do so.


https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... d-security
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby Lordo » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:19 pm

Jerry wrote:Travel advice from UK Government.

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine you for illegal entry if you cross into the south, but in practice, the current policy is not to do so.


https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... d-security

i shall be testing that quite soon. lets see if your lazy arse poulice ouficers react to an ercan stamp.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:24 pm

Sotos wrote:Cyprus is a sovereign country and has its own laws. If you can find nothing about 'legal ports of entry' that means that the regular laws apply and there is nothing that takes precedence over them. Is it legal for me to take my private boat, land on some random beach in France and enter that country no questions asked? If yes, then a French person can do the same in Cyprus. If not, then a French person can't come in such a way to Cyprus either. I believe that since Cyprus is not part of Schengen that even EU citizens (let alone foreigners) are legally required to enter from the designed ports of entry. Maybe this would be different if Cyprus was a member of Schengen.


I am not really going to argue (much) and I have simply stated my understanding and said it may well be wrong. Some 'observations' on your post however.

If you really think that the RoC agreeing to join the EU involved no loss of sovereignty by the RoC at all, I suggest with respect, you think again.

re your France scenario - it seems to me if you read the green line regulations, it is all about this line being different from any other external border of the EU's and thus requires specific and unique regulations that apply to it only, hence the green line regulations themselves ?

My partner is a NZ national, who resides with me in the North. She entered the RoC via the north, originally and every time since she has subsequently left and returned and can and does cross the green line. Her parents , both NZ nationals, when they first visited did so by entering Cyprus via the north and they were able to cross the Green line without problem. My understanding is they were allowed to do so because they met the requirements as laid out in the Green line regulations namely 'they possessed a valid travel document (passport) and did not as NZ nationals require a visa and did not represent a threat to public policy or public security'.
Last edited by erolz66 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:26 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:Under Schengen Rules all people entering the Schengen zone must do so through a designated crossing point. All people, incuding all eu citizens must be adequately identified and their entry recorded.


Under Green line regulations everyone crossing the green line (which is defined not as an eternal border of the EU) must do so via designated points only and those places are laid out within the Green line regulations. The 'crossing points'.
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Re: Visa free travel for Turks to EU

Postby erolz66 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:33 pm

Jerry wrote:Travel advice from UK Government.

British and other foreign nationals who have entered Cyprus through the north are considered by the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to have entered Cyprus through an illegal port of entry. The Government of the Republic of Cyprus reserves the right to fine you for illegal entry if you cross into the south, but in practice, the current policy is not to do so.


https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advic ... d-security


Yes I note that it does not warn people that they may not be allowed to cross, only that they may face a fine having crossed. Not the same thing. Can the RoC stop people crossing, outside of the rules for such laid down in the green line regulations ? My understanding is they can not but I could be wrong. Can they fine people who have crossed according to their own national laws ? I think in theory yes they can but in practice they know they can not do so to EU citizens without causing a lot of trouble between themselves and the EU, Can they do so with non EU citizens, again in theory they can and perhaps with less trouble than if they did so with EU citizens, but there would then still be issues with applying laws arbitrarily or applying them only to some nationalities and not others, which is problematic in itself. So I think they maintain the law that would allow them in theory to fine people that have crossed after entering via the north but in practice do not and have not implemented this law since joining the EU because to do so would actually be more trouble than its worth.
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