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Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 10:30 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
It seems antisemiticism is alive and well in this very thread Tim. It just proved beyond doubt how common it actually is.

Have you spotted it?

This in itself, justifies the establishment of a Jewish State.


I do not for a minute deny that Jewish people have suffered great discrimination and oppression in the past, and I find everything the German Third Reich did to be abhorrent -as opposed to the running dog of Zionism who has polluted this thread with Nazi propaganda and thus left people like myself who genuinely oppose all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism, and also oppose Zionism because, for one thing, it is also fundamentally racist, open to the charge of anti-Semitism.

Even so, please explain why, given that atheism is a capital offence in thirteen countries in the world, atheists do not also deserve a safe haven, or indeed all groups that face systematic oppression.


No not you! You're not antisemitic! Someone else. I was asking you if you had spotted it.

Atheism is not a religion or racial group. The Jews, apart from actually being a religion, classify themselves as a race of their own according to Weizemann. In addition, Atheists are unlikely to experience any persecution or be executed for their non belief. Atheists don't have any attachment to a particular area like the Jews have to Jerusalem for instance. Obviously, if you visited Saudi Arabia, expressing your Atheistic non believe is not smart but I haven't heard of any Atheists being apprehended or executed.

Prior to Israel, Palestine was under British Control. It was agreed to establish the Nation of Israel in 1948. Only 4 years earlier, they were still being gassed in NAZI Death Camps.


Oh, come on, there are instances of people being executed for being atheists in Saudi Arabia. Do I really have to waste more of my time on Google to come up with the evidence?


Are there? I will take your word for it.

Pretty stupid going around in Saudi Arabia, proclaiming to be Atheist if you ask me. There is no cure for stupidity unfortunately.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 10:33 am

Tim Drayton wrote:No, just that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all closely related and so I look on with bemusement at the amount of bloodshed and hatred that it is inspired by conflict between them. (There is a belief in Judaism that a Messiah will come one day. A schism occurred in Judaism between those who believed that the man from Nazareth was this 'Messiah' and those who didn't. Initially the former just considered themselves Jews but then, when this schism began to attract non-Jews, they started to proclaim it as being a separate religion. What Christians call the 'Old Testament' is actually the Jewish holy book.)


Usually, the hatred and bloodshed is one way these days, and not from Christianity or Judaism like it use to be at one time.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 10:36 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Here's one just for the sake of it:

Saudi court sentences poet to death for renouncing Islam

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... cing-islam

OK that was renouncing Islam, not specifically being an atheist, but this is the charge atheists in Saudi Arabia face, anyhow (because everyone there is deemed to be Muslim from birth, whether they like it or not, and so declaring belief in anything else is automatically apostasy).


Did he convert to being Atheist, or another religion?

We are well aware of Saudi Sharia Law and Human Rights abuses Tim. But how often do they execute Atheists or people of other religions? Millions of Christians and Atheists go to and even work in Saudi Arabia every year Tim with no incidents.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 11:01 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
It seems antisemiticism is alive and well in this very thread Tim. It just proved beyond doubt how common it actually is.

Have you spotted it?

This in itself, justifies the establishment of a Jewish State.


I do not for a minute deny that Jewish people have suffered great discrimination and oppression in the past, and I find everything the German Third Reich did to be abhorrent -as opposed to the running dog of Zionism who has polluted this thread with Nazi propaganda and thus left people like myself who genuinely oppose all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism, and also oppose Zionism because, for one thing, it is also fundamentally racist, open to the charge of anti-Semitism.

Even so, please explain why, given that atheism is a capital offence in thirteen countries in the world, atheists do not also deserve a safe haven, or indeed all groups that face systematic oppression.


No not you! You're not antisemitic! Someone else. I was asking you if you had spotted it.

Atheism is not a religion or racial group. The Jews, apart from actually being a religion, classify themselves as a race of their own according to Weizemann. In addition, Atheists are unlikely to experience any persecution or be executed for their non belief. Atheists don't have any attachment to a particular area like the Jews have to Jerusalem for instance. Obviously, if you visited Saudi Arabia, expressing your Atheistic non believe is not smart but I haven't heard of any Atheists being apprehended or executed.

Prior to Israel, Palestine was under British Control. It was agreed to establish the Nation of Israel in 1948. Only 4 years earlier, they were still being gassed in NAZI Death Camps.


Oh, come on, there are instances of people being executed for being atheists in Saudi Arabia. Do I really have to waste more of my time on Google to come up with the evidence?


Are there? I will take your word for it.

Pretty stupid going around in Saudi Arabia, proclaiming to be Atheist if you ask me. There is no cure for stupidity unfortunately.


No, it's pretty unacceptable to be unable to publicly declare one's genuinely held beliefs. And it is more than a theoretical nicety, either, given that from what I have heard the religious police known as the Mutawwah go around with canes in their hands forcing people to go to mosques at prayer time and frequently giving a few strokes of the cane in the process for attempting to skip prayer.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 11:06 am

Saudi court sentences man to 10 years, 2,000 lashes for atheist tweets

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/sau ... st-tweets/

Saudi Arabia declares atheists terrorists under new laws targeting citizens who 'call for secular thought in any form

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -laws.html
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 11:19 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Saudi court sentences man to 10 years, 2,000 lashes for atheist tweets

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/sau ... st-tweets/

Saudi Arabia declares atheists terrorists under new laws targeting citizens who 'call for secular thought in any form

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -laws.html


We all know the laws there Tim.

It is pretty silly tweeting or posting Atheistic material in KSA. You are pretty much asking for trouble.

99.999% of Atheists go to KSA every year without issues. You got to be smart and try to obey the laws of the land as much as possible.

Having said that, Saudi Arabia is continuously criticized for HR violations. It's all a slow burn with them. Only recently, they allowed women suffrage - a step in the right direction. Next step is to allow them to drive.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 11:21 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
No, it's pretty unacceptable to be unable to publicly declare one's genuinely held beliefs. And it is more than a theoretical nicety, either, given that from what I have heard the religious police known as the Mutawwah go around with canes in their hands forcing people to go to mosques at prayer time and frequently giving a few strokes of the cane in the process for attempting to skip prayer.


I don't like it either. But there is nothing anyone can do about it for now.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 06, 2016 11:31 am

TD:
No, it's pretty unacceptable to be unable to publicly declare one's genuinely held beliefs.

And it is more than a theoretical nicety, either, given that from what I have heard the religious police known as the Mutawwah go around with canes in their hands forcing people to go to mosques at prayer time and frequently giving a few strokes of the cane in the process for attempting to skip prayer.


You are right in that, I have seen them in Yanbu (Western Saudi). They drive around with the Koran open on the dashboard and will stop, leap out and shout at people and, as you say, beat them with canes.

I was told that, a few weeks before I arrived to work there, a group of these guys went into a International School and started their shouting games when they found children of both sexes in the pool together having swimming lessons. These were toddlers up to about 5 years. A quick phone call to their husbands working on the industrial site and within 5 minutes a bunch of very big and very angry Dads ...... turned up and were in no mood to ‘negotiate’. The threat was enough and they scuttled off with the inevitable cry ‘Alahu Akbar’, after that they seemed to disappear from the area where there were a lot of ex-pats.

An evil bigoted people led by a wholly distorted and extreme vision of their religion......... Paphitis I am sure would be made very welcome! :roll:
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 1:21 pm

Yes, but it is interesting that they have to round quite a few people up and force them to go to the mosque. This suggests that not everybody there is as devout as some would suggest.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 06, 2016 1:48 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Yes, but it is interesting that they have to round quite a few people up and force them to go to the mosque. This suggests that not everybody there is as devout as some would suggest.


I once asked an Iranian engineer what the difference was between life now (early 1990's) and the days of the |Shah? His reply was that:

"In the Shahs time, we drank in public and prayed in private ......... today we pray in public and drink in private."

I think that pretty well sums it up. During Ramadan in Iran and Saudi, our offices were always full of nationals having a cigarette, a cup of tea/coffee and something to eat. when they should be fasting So I suppose their respect for the absolute letter of their religion is akin to Catholics who practice birth control. You are only being a bad follower .... if you get found out! I think with all these religions, many do what they know they are expected to do rather than what they feel should be done in their Gods name as to do otherwise can be injurious to your health and welfare. :wink:
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