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Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Paphitis » Fri May 06, 2016 7:24 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
It seems antisemiticism is alive and well in this very thread Tim. It just proved beyond doubt how common it actually is.

Have you spotted it?

This in itself, justifies the establishment of a Jewish State.


I do not for a minute deny that Jewish people have suffered great discrimination and oppression in the past, and I find everything the German Third Reich did to be abhorrent -as opposed to the running dog of Zionism who has polluted this thread with Nazi propaganda and thus left people like myself who genuinely oppose all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism, and also oppose Zionism because, for one thing, it is also fundamentally racist, open to the charge of anti-Semitism.

Even so, please explain why, given that atheism is a capital offence in thirteen countries in the world, atheists do not also deserve a safe haven, or indeed all groups that face systematic oppression.


No not you! You're not antisemitic! Someone else. I was asking you if you had spotted it.

Atheism is not a religion or racial group. The Jews, apart from actually being a religion, classify themselves as a race of their own according to Weizemann. In addition, Atheists are unlikely to experience any persecution or be executed for their non belief. Atheists don't have any attachment to a particular area like the Jews have to Jerusalem for instance. Obviously, if you visited Saudi Arabia, expressing your Atheistic non believe is not smart but I haven't heard of any Atheists being apprehended or executed.

Prior to Israel, Palestine was under British Control. It was agreed to establish the Nation of Israel in 1948. Only 4 years earlier, they were still being gassed in NAZI Death Camps.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 7:43 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
It seems antisemiticism is alive and well in this very thread Tim. It just proved beyond doubt how common it actually is.

Have you spotted it?

This in itself, justifies the establishment of a Jewish State.


I do not for a minute deny that Jewish people have suffered great discrimination and oppression in the past, and I find everything the German Third Reich did to be abhorrent -as opposed to the running dog of Zionism who has polluted this thread with Nazi propaganda and thus left people like myself who genuinely oppose all forms of racism, including anti-Semitism, and also oppose Zionism because, for one thing, it is also fundamentally racist, open to the charge of anti-Semitism.

Even so, please explain why, given that atheism is a capital offence in thirteen countries in the world, atheists do not also deserve a safe haven, or indeed all groups that face systematic oppression.


No not you! You're not antisemitic! Someone else. I was asking you if you had spotted it.

Atheism is not a religion or racial group. The Jews, apart from actually being a religion, classify themselves as a race of their own according to Weizemann. In addition, Atheists are unlikely to experience any persecution or be executed for their non belief. Atheists don't have any attachment to a particular area like the Jews have to Jerusalem for instance. Obviously, if you visited Saudi Arabia, expressing your Atheistic non believe is not smart but I haven't heard of any Atheists being apprehended or executed.

Prior to Israel, Palestine was under British Control. It was agreed to establish the Nation of Israel in 1948. Only 4 years earlier, they were still being gassed in NAZI Death Camps.


Oh, come on, there are instances of people being executed for being atheists in Saudi Arabia. Do I really have to waste more of my time on Google to come up with the evidence?
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 7:52 am

Here's one just for the sake of it:

Saudi court sentences poet to death for renouncing Islam

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/n ... cing-islam

OK that was renouncing Islam, not specifically being an atheist, but this is the charge atheists in Saudi Arabia face, anyhow (because everyone there is deemed to be Muslim from birth, whether they like it or not, and so declaring belief in anything else is automatically apostasy).
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 06, 2016 8:23 am

Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Freedman was a Jew.


He converted to Roman Catholicism, and in my experience, people who 'convert' from one brand of the God delusion to another are always wacko. He was also highly involved in the McCarthy witch hunt of the 1950's which was based on a whole tissue of lies and fabrication, and this is enough to discredit anything he says in my eyes.


Careful Tim. He might do a Sputnik Search. The gentleman is a troll.

I have no idea why you would take him seriously.


No need to search anything! Tim is correct ..... Freedman was someone who believed in God and then realised the version he had believed for all those years was corrupted. In his eyes, as it would have been in my eyes if I were a believer in God, he still wanted to continue his belief in that God. Unlike some I could mention, he had the capacity to realise that what he had believed for all those years was corrupt!
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 8:25 am

Research the history of religion a little, and you will soon see that both Christianity and Islam are corrupted forms of Judaism.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri May 06, 2016 8:52 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Research the history of religion a little, and you will soon see that both Christianity and Islam are corrupted forms of Judaism.

Indeed - in the case of Christianity possibly descended from a particular fourth century construct - Council of Nicaea, etc., and that based on something that had cut out much of Judaic law.

Judaic faith is itself probably a 6th Century BC human construct.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 06, 2016 9:35 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Freedman was a Jew.


He converted to Roman Catholicism, and in my experience, people who 'convert' from one brand of the God delusion to another are always wacko. He was also highly involved in the McCarthy witch hunt of the 1950's which was based on a whole tissue of lies and fabrication, and this is enough to discredit anything he says in my eyes.


I accept I was wrong in my assumption and you were correct ...... the Balfour Declaration WAS published before 1919 and I stand corrected.

I am not sure that if I had been a German, I would necessarily have linked a deal between the British and Zionists to the fact that the USA had entered the war of the side of the British. Freedman says, and there is plenty of evidence to support his claim, that the US was a fervent supporter of Germany and they literally swapped sides overnight. He also gives the reasons for this and it is credible.

This part of the Freedman speech was really just as significant in the reason why the Germans were surprised:

After facing a 117 Zionists (Jews) at Versailles , and remember Freedman was there, he has no need to lie or exaggerate as it is all documented ............
Quote ......... the Germans, for the first time realized, "Oh, that was the game! That's why the United States came into the war." And the Germans for the first time realized that they were defeated, they suffered this terrific reparation that was slapped onto them, because the Zionists wanted Palestine and they were determined to get it at any cost.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri May 06, 2016 9:39 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Research the history of religion a little, and you will soon see that both Christianity and Islam are corrupted forms of Judaism.


Actually, there's a lot of evidence to indicate that Greek Orthodoxy developed from the belief in the 12 gods of Olympus (12 disciples of Jesus). It retains some of the ancient stories (swans egg and Ledra/Zeus etc) in the form of Church decorations too.
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 06, 2016 10:05 am

Tim Drayton wrote:Research the history of religion a little, and you will soon see that both Christianity and Islam are corrupted forms of Judaism.


Not really into religion ..... I have NEVER been a believer in any faith. Not something I claim to know much about so I accept what you say. What you're implying is that anyone who believes in a 'God figure', is basically a believer in a Jewish God and therefore could claim to be a Jew?

Just for the record; I am opposed to any form of religious persecution, no matter what faith. Quite often a religion is usurped by another organisation for gain because they know that people are really no better than sheep and can be easily 'persuaded' to believe almost anything ......... with a big enough 'stick', a good propaganda campaign or another powerful enough incentive. Plenty of evidence around to justify that belief.

I tend to look at these incidents in history, with the benefit of hindsight and records of these events, and try to give a reasone degree of probability to both sides of an argument. I have for years battled with the ill-informed who ridicule the fact that Judaism and Zionism are not the same thing and I have been called all sorts of names for believing this to be so. :roll:
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Re: Anti-Semitic comments by leading Labour party members

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri May 06, 2016 10:25 am

No, just that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all closely related and so I look on with bemusement at the amount of bloodshed and hatred that it is inspired by conflict between them. (There is a belief in Judaism that a Messiah will come one day. A schism occurred in Judaism between those who believed that the man from Nazareth was this 'Messiah' and those who didn't. Initially the former just considered themselves Jews but then, when this schism began to attract non-Jews, they started to proclaim it as being a separate religion. What Christians call the 'Old Testament' is actually the Jewish holy book.)
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