Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

PS. The above contract is an example of a contract to transact on a financial market located outside the UK where the contract is governed by English law. This shows that Steve Keen was shooting his mouth off about things of which he knows nothing in that BBC interview.

[Robin Hood]

I don't get this!!!!! So the English Law does not have to be translated to comply with German Law? Bear with me ? The speed limit in Germany is unlimited on the Autobahn so driving a German car in Cyprus, if my sale contract had a 'governing law' clause, I could do 150kph on the local highway and claim in court the Cypriot Judge had no jurisdiction, because German Law applied. (Modified 19.38 to add .... a stupid analogy but it demonstrates the stupidity of applying laws without thought!) !

No, you don't get it. It's truly pitiful. If your sale contract has a governing law clause, for example reading "This contract shall be governed by English law" or "English law shall apply to this contract", then if you have a dispute with the vendor or the vendor has a dispute with you over the contract, and either party decides to take this dispute to court, the court that hears the case will in most cases, especially if it is in a country that is a signatory to the 1980 Rome convention, have to apply English law in settling the dispute irrespective of what the law of that country is. Of course this does not mean that, if for example the governing law clause stipulates that German law applies to the contract, you then obey German traffic rules and not the traffic rules of the country you are driving in. The governing law clause states which law has to be applied by the courts if a dispute arising out of the contract comes to litigation. After so many attempts, you are obviously never going to be able to understand, so I would suggest you stop even trying.

Maybe, but at least I don't claim to know anything about the law but am quite prepared to listen to some body that obviously does. I now know more than I did a few days ago, it's just a pity that you need sarcasm to get the point over?

I feel exactly the same as you when it comes to the subject of money creation and the structure of the banking system. The difference between us is that I am willing to listen to you and others. and in that way I learn from others with more knowledge than me ...... I don't normally stoop to sarcasm or ridicule. I usually have the patience to explain what I have learned in detail, just like you, over a long period of time and try, by explanation, to describe it, when so often the concept I have no problem with is not so easy for others to comprehend ... But I would not tell them to stop even trying to understand something I find very straight forward because they are 'pitiful' in their ignorance.

I have learned enough from what you have said to now have at least a bit of understanding of why you believe that such a transfer from London to Frankfurt will be a simple task. Whether that will be a good idea for Germany or the EU remains to be seen. That we will know quite soon I should think, if it as easy as it seems to be. Banks don't normally drag their feet when profits are involved! ........ but on the economics side I think Keen is correct in his perception.

BTW: The 'traffic' example was a bit childish .... but I did admit it!

[Robin Hood]

Just to cheer up all you 'remainers' ! I know it's the DM but things are not looking so bad after all?

Brexit Britain’s booming! EVERY region of the country is more prosperous than last year, a new study finds
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764300/Every-region-better-year-research-finds.html#ixzz4IpQIFtH1

What Brexit blues? Bars and restaurants boom as consumers give a vote of confidence in UK's future
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3764741/What-Brexit-blues-Bars-restaurants-boom-consumers-vote-confidence-UK-s-future.html#ixzz4IpRCrbg2

'Brexit will actually help the economy thrive' claims former Bank of England governor Lord King as he criticises 'speculative' scare stories as 'insulting to the intelligence of the voter'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3763938/Brexit-actually-help-economy-thrive-claims-former-Bank-England-governor-Lord-King-criticises-speculative-scare-stories-insulting-intelligence-voter.html#ixzz4IpRmi8Hl

[Tim Drayton]

I see the Express is spouting nonsense again. "Brexit Britain’s booming!" Does that apology for a newspaper not know that Brexit has not yet happened - article 50 has not even been triggered yet - and Britain is still a full member of the EU. It is EU-member Britain that is, for the time being, supposedly booming - well, consumer spending has held up well for one quarter.

[Tim Drayton]

But economic news since the vote has been far less apocalyptic than the gloom-laden predictions of the Remain side suggested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4IpRmi8Hl

Well, yes, but those predictions were based on the premise that article 50 would be triggered the day after the referendum and that there would be a swift exit from the EU. Events are now taking a very different course. The consensus view among experts is that leaving the EU will be highy damaging for the UK's economy. These damaging effects will only come into play once the country actually leaves the union. In fact, Sterling has already fallen on the mere expectation of the damage that is to come. The above quote is a textbook example of the straw man fallacy.

[Lordo]

davies who is a leading proponent of brexit believes that once out we will be able to have deals with france and germany individually. it seems he is unable to understand that the reason why he wanted out was precisely that, britain was unable to negotiate deals for ourselves.

it seems to me they will not be able to even declare it without a government vote to begin with. people are ready to take the government to court to force a vote in parliament.

[Robin Hood]

I see the Express is spouting nonsense again. "Brexit Britain’s booming!" Does that apology for a newspaper not know that Brexit has not yet happened - article 50 has not even been triggered yet - and Britain is still a full member of the EU. It is EU-member Britain that is, for the time being, supposedly booming - well, consumer spending has held up well for one quarter.

"It hasn't happened yet!" I just knew that would be the reply!!!!

But you were very quick, along with others, to blame the fall in the value of the pound on Brexit (instead of speculators)..... the same Brexit that hasn't happened yet! Strange that? You can't quote any MSM reports that can demonstrate that ANY of the remain campaign was even remotely true. Wasn't it you that was going to pack-up to go and live in Scotland?

Those pushing for remaining in a failed EU decided to follow the US policy of fear of what might be and presenting it as fact. It has now been proved to be more or less a load of bullsh*t with no foundation. Look at what the Germans are saying ..... "...... we can't make it too easy for the British so that they get all the good bits, as that would spell the end of the EU". Of course it will! It was the bad bits that the UK objected to and tried to get changed ...... but Junker and his mates were to arrogant to realise that the biggest danger to the future of EU was their federalist intentions and the destruction of national sovereignty and it is now pretty clear that the other countries of the EU are not too keen on it either.

If you look very closely you will see the links were to the Daily Mail. Are you saying the Express is saying the same thing? Read what Mervyn King has to say about all the bad mouthing the remainers have spewed out since the result. Just face it ...... those who voted to leave at least did it for a reason and with a bit of thought .... but things did not go the way the remainers thought they would and their idea of remaining with the status quo went down the pan.

[Robin Hood]

But economic news since the vote has been far less apocalyptic than the gloom-laden predictions of the Remain side suggested.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z4IpRmi8Hl

Well, yes, but those predictions were based on the premise that article 50 would be triggered the day after the referendum and that there would be a swift exit from the EU. Events are now taking a very different course. The consensus view among experts is that leaving the EU will be highy damaging for the UK's economy. These damaging effects will only come into play once the country actually leaves the union. In fact, Sterling has already fallen on the mere expectation of the damage that is to come. The above quote is a textbook example of the straw man fallacy.

Whose premise? Let's be honest very few of us would have had a clue what A50 even was until it came up after the vote! You are very selective as to which experts you believe. Many economist have said that the Euro is doomed and was a bad idea in the first place, that was to the benefit only to the Northern industrial States, for others it has been a disaster.

As the house of cards, which is what the EU is, begins to fall apart more and more countries will have referendums and the vote will be to leave the existing EU. They will come to realise the benefits of trade agreements for a block of sovereign states, will be in their own interests. From that I believe the EU will revert to being the European Economic Community and each country will revert to a sovereign currency .... the Euro will disappear.

[Tim Drayton]

But you were very quick, along with others, to blame the fall in the value of the pound on Brexit.

Of course anybody who talks about a 'post-Brexit fall in the value of the pound' or, indeed, a 'post-Brexit' anything is talking nonsense because it hasn't happened yet. When did I, or anybody else, ever say such a thing? Sterling fell in response to the referendum result in which there was a narrow majority in favour of leaving the EU. Financial markets are moved by expectations about the future far more than past events, and the currency markets duly priced in the liklihood that the UK was heading for economic disaster when the fatal day came. The reason, in my view, that the markets have since perked up a bit is because it is looking more likely that the UK will never actually leave the EU and they are now pricing in this positive (in terms of market sentiment) news. Consumer spending is a different matter, and is not really related to expectations about the future. Employment levels are currently high in the UK, so people have money in their pockets, and they are spending some of it. Does this serve as any kind of indicator that if the UK leaves the EU there won't be a severe slump? No. For any publication to describe anything happening at the moment as 'post-Brexit' when the UK has not yet left the EU can scarcely call itself a newspaper in my eyes. Anybody who has to resort to quoting such garbage must be desperate.

Just to clarify, could you specify what you mean by 'MSM', a term you appear to be fond of? Thanks.

[Tim Drayton]

You can't quote any MSM reports that can demonstrate that ANY of the remain campaign was even remotely true.

Typical man of straw fallacy. The remainers supposedly said that, if the vote was for leave, there would be an instant apocalypse and the sky would fall in the next day. Well, the sky didn't fall in the next day so they were wrong! What intellectual dishonesty. Nobody made such claims. The claims that were made were based on the premise that article 50 would be triggered the day after and the UK would rapidly leave the union. In fact, as each day passes, it becomes clearer that we are in a 'Hotel California' situation and may never even get round to leaving. At the moment the UK remains an EU member and life carries on as before. Even so, there are plenty of negative auguries. The pound is weaker. Interest rates have been reduced to a pathological quarter percent and business confidence levels are low. To demonstrate empirically that the 'remain campaign was true', as you put it, the UK will first of all need to leave the EU, because the claims of the remain campaign were that 'If the UK leaves the EU, the consequences of this will be ...". The remain campaign did not say that these things would happen just because the vote was for leave.