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Erdogan : Childless women are deficient and incomplete

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Re: Erdogan : Childless women are deficient and incomplete

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:17 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote: It is a fact that women who reject motherhood are generally psychos, and those who can't have children either because the husband or them are not fertile, feel incomplete.


Utter nonsense imo.


Do you really beleive that or you think it should be so??


Well as Supporttheunderdog correctly pointed out you make two different assertions. One that women who reject motherhood (by choice) are generally psychos. Secondly that people who want their own children feel incomplete.

This second claim in the form you wrote is not utter nonsense imo and I should have been clearer about that. Clearly for people who want their own child and are unable to achieve that, they may well feel 'incomplete'. In the same way someone who has a burning desire to be, to pluck an example out of thin air, a police person but is unable to qualify for such a role for some reason, may well feel 'incomplete'.

If you cast the second claim in the form that women (or men) who are unable to have children of their own are incomplete, rather than some of them (those that want their own children) feel incomplete, then I do think that claim would be utter nonsense imo.

I am just shy of 50 years old. I have since a very young age been of the opinion that choosing to make new children whilst the world is already full of existing children in dire need of loving parents and a stable home and given that the world is already struggling under the burden of population, is a selfish, narcissistic ego driven pursuit. These are some of the reason why I have by choice chosen to not have my own children. I have always said from a very young age, if I wanted to experience the nurturing of a child, I would adopt and foster before having my own children. My partner of 30 years also chooses to not have children of her own. I do not think either of us are 'psychos' or incomplete because of this life choice of ours. I really do not understand why so many people have a desire to have children that have to be made of a random mix of their own and one other specific persons genes. For me the desire to want to nurture and raise a child is understandable but to only want to do so if it has 'your genes' and not if it does not is a mystery. Population growth is the unspoken 'elephant in the room' that no one talks about or tackles, yet is at the core of finding sustainable ways for us to live on this planet. My 'carbon footprint' is large by any world average, but by choosing to bring a new life or multiple lives into the world I expand the carbon footprint I am responsible for exponentially and into the future long after I may cease to exist. I think it is obscene the resource that is expended trying to help first world couple who are unable to have have their own children when they are unable to, when there are hundreds of millions elsewhere in the world who die, or go blind, or suffer other debilities for want of the most basic medical care . If people are driven to nurture, then nurture the already existing unwanted children. Don't spend vast amounts of money and resource creating more children because you only want to nurture children that share 50% ish of your own genes.

Then there is the whole politics of the claim (which I admit may not be a claim you are making) that a woman that has not experienced childbirth is somehow 'incomplete', as a human being, because they have not experienced childbirth. To me this is the politics of previous centuries, of the oppression of women. It undermines all the real progress and gains of female emancipation that have been fought for so hard and won by so many around the world. Defining women, their role in society or their 'completeness' as human beings and such like in terms of their bearing of children or not, is to me the politics of the previous centuries of pre emancipation of women.


Yeah right erol it's better to pend your money feeding 8 cats than spend it to raise a child LOL.
You guys better have a look at psychological tests to find out the status of women who REJECT motherhood and how complete those who want and can't have children are.
You GIG and a few others just try to be politically correct...
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Re: Erdogan : Childless women are deficient and incomplete

Postby erolz66 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:21 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:Yeah right erol it's better to pend your money feeding 8 cats than spend it to raise a child LOL.


It is easily arguable that it is better to spend money caring for something unwanted that I had no part in the creation of, than creating new somethings, I think. It also easily arguable that spending my money on caring for otherwise unwanted animals is better than spending it on cocaine and hookers, at least for the animals concerned, if not for me or the cocaine dealers and hookers.

Pyrpolizer wrote:You guys better have a look at psychological tests to find out the status of women who REJECT motherhood


You mean we should, unlike you to date, produce some actual evidence ? Like this perhaps ?

http://psychsocgerontology.oxfordjourna ... /S311.full

Childlessness per se did not significantly increase the prevalence of loneliness and depression at advanced ages, net of other factors. There also was no statistical evidence for the hypothesis that childlessness increases loneliness and depression for divorced, widowed, and never married elderly persons.


or this http://gradworks.umi.com/34/89/3489579.html

Conclusions: This study adds to the body of literature showing little to no difference between childless adults and parents on measures of mental health.


Please do feel free to offer some actual evidence to support your claim that " It is a fact that women who reject motherhood are generally psychos"

Pyrpolizer wrote:You GIG and a few others just try to be politically correct...


I could just as easily suggest that your expressed views are not genuinely held by you but are just your attempts to be seen to be 'politically incorrect' but to do so would be patronising in the extreme and insulting generally, so I will not do that.
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Re: Erdogan : Childless women are deficient and incomplete

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:39 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:You guys better have a look at psychological tests to find out the status of women who REJECT motherhood ..


I would like to know why you chose to use such a strong word as "reject", and emphasized?

For most women, as far as I know, I would say they are more likely to have either never got round to it or couldn't fit it in with their other commitments rather than that they had an explicit outright "REJECT"ion of motherhood. After all, some perfectly able people choose not to go to university, for example, as they prefer to start working/travelling sooner - but they are not rejecting university, just choosing not to go as there are more interesting things to do with the unknown extent of their lifespan.

Maybe if we lived longer, these women might do everything else they would rather do first and then eventually get round to also experiment with having kids.

Ultimately, having kids is one of the most selfish things anyone can do. And it's a matter of priority as there might be other selfish things to do first.
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