Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

what gcs are only 7.3 greak. now theres a turn up for the books.

[supporttheunderdog]

Stud, prehistoric people existed nearly everywhere and nobody said that Cyprus was uninhabited when the Mycenaeans came. Beyond that trying to use whichever study suits your aim and discard the ones that don't is silly at the very least. Claiming that one study is outdated and can therefore can be dismissed simply shows that "your" study can also become outdated by another which would show contrary results. In the end of the day DNA doesn't matter at all in who can be a member of a nation anyway. Do you discriminate the members of your nation based on their DNA? This is called eugenics and it is a fascist practice. If you want you can follow such Nazi practices in your own nation, which will be much easier to divide into discrete groups, than our Greek nation which is relatively homogeneous. Attempts to divide our nation with such fascist practices not only can not succeed, but on the contrary brings our nation closer together.

Sotos,

You should look at the Aims of the Study

Here, we report a high-resolution analysis of over 600 Y-chromosomes from contemporary Greek-Cypriots throughout Cyprus, whereby we explore the hypothesis that the present-day male genetic diversity of Cyprus also retains some elements distributed prior to the Hellenic period, with the following objectives in mind: (i) How does the Cypriot population compare genetically with surrounding populations? (ii) Which Y-chromosomes may reflect the Greek versus the pre-Greek settlements of Cyprus?

And who funded it.... ?

I am NOT aware of a comparative study on Cypriots.
Indeed as the authors say

Some extant Cypriot Y-chromosome data exists but it is either restricted to particular haplogroups [10] or of limited phylogenetic resolution

This is therefore probably the most authoritative report there currently is.



The following may be of interest on how Ethnic origin has been politicised
You should read this which is a academic's view of the development of the Athenocentric Hellenism we have in Cyprus today
https://www.prio.org/Global/upload/Cyprus/History/Andrekos%20Varnava.doc

and this
http://www.academia.edu/4533772/Michalis_N._Michael_Myth_and_Nationalism_The_Retrospective_Force_of_National_Roles_through_Mythical_Past_Ayhan_Aktar_Niyazi_K%C4%B1z%C4%B1ly%C3%BCrek_Umut_%C3%96zk%C4%B1r%C4%B1ml%C4%B1_eds_Nationalism_in_the_Troubled_Triangle_Cyprus_Greece_and_Turkey_Palgrave_Macmillan_London_2010_pp._149-159._In_English_

[GreekIslandGirl]

This is cherry picking and misquoting,

Yes, you picked the cherry. My quote was the sentence that completed the one you posted. But you don't like the fuller picture.

Now by my maths 87% of 7.3% is about 6.4% so that is the E-V13 contribution to Cyprus -

You're clueless! Keep slicing away as though it's simply arithmetic ...

[supporttheunderdog]

No it is you who do not like the fuller picture whioch is set out in text here: see also Fig 1 and table 2
[quote]The complex genetic structure of Cyprus
Figure 1 presents the phylogenetic relationships and frequencies of the Y-chromosome lineages detected in the six districts of Cyprus. Like other populations in Anatolia and Lebanon, Cyprus exhibits a high level of haplogroup J2-M172 related diversity. J2a-M410 is the dominant Y-chromosome lineage, constituting 26.0 % of the overall Cypriot samples. J2b-M12/M102 splits into mainly J2b-M205 (5.9 %), frequent in Southern Levant (Additional file 5: Figure S2), and J2b-M241 (0.6 %), most frequent in Greece and the Balkans [20, 35]. Overall, the E-M35 haplogroup totals to 23.1 % and contains various E-M78 sub-haplogroups including E-V13 (7.3 %) that is common in Greece [10, 18, 35] and E-V22 (3.5 %), that is frequent in Egypt [10] and Sudan [49]. Another E-M35 related haplogroup, E-M34, previously reported in Asia Minor [31], Southern Levant [50, 51], and the Balkans [35] also was observed in Cyprus (10.3 %)./quote]

You are doing your usual trick of trying to lie about what a report says or rather does not say with your visual selective quoting and distortion. That is what you do and that is what you have always done, when your perverted world view is under attack.You hope that if you repeat the lie often enough otherwise will believe it

Please be warned that each and every time you try to claim something about the 87% of E-V13 being Greek as showing a substantial Greek decent of Greelk Speaking Cypriots I will point to the fact the report shows 66% of all Y DnA is Anatolian and 24% is Levantine in Origin (i.e. 80% of the whole ) with only 20% from elsewhere.

Further I will point out that if 80% of the whole is Anatolian or Levantine it follows that 87% of a part cannot represent 87% of the whole as you claim, but where E-V13 is only 7.3% of the whole (as per the above paragraph) and of that 87% of E-V13 only is Greek, The maths must follow: 7.3*0.84 = about 6.351 i.e. only about 6.4% of the Y DNA make up of Greek Speaking Cypriots is E-V13 of Greek origin.

You know I will stand my ground and in the process take all the pathetic jibes that you can throw, which you think of as intellectual debate or witty put downs, but which are so only in your imagination.

[GreekIslandGirl]

You are doing your usual trick of trying to lie about what a report says or rather does not say with your visual selective quoting and distortion.

It was a direct quote that was the completion of the statement you truncated. Why are you hissing now?

Please be warned that each and every time you try to claim something

I'm not claiming anything. I quoted what was in your report that you left out.

Further I will point out that if 80% of the whole is Anatolian or Levantine it follows that 87% of a part cannot represent 87% of the whole as you claim,

" ....the actual Greek contribution stood out for the Cypriot E-V13 (87 %), J2a-M67 (74 %), R1b-M269 (48 %), and G-P15 (17 %) components."

I didn't make any numbers up. Do those components add up to 100% ? Those were in the report and it proves you don't know how the distributions are represented. Pack up now, idiot!

[Sotos]

Stud, give me some Turkish funded studies about the claim that there was no Armenian Genocide. While you are at it get me some Holocaust deniers as well And by the way, you can cross Lallana from your England team as well. He is apparently of Spanish decent. For the rest I hope you have their DNA results ready before those people are allowed to play again pretending to be English!

[erolz66]

And by the way, you can cross Lallana from your England team as well.

Is lallana claiming to be of the 'native' people of Britain and claiming other people who live in Britain are not 'native'? His nationality is not in dispute. He probably does not go around claiming to be of a group of people that is 'native' either. Those that do make such claims invite legitimate investigation of the migratory flows that led to Cyprus being settled and populated. When those that claim to be native, then dismiss a report, simply on the basis that there are historians who deny the holocaust, and use arguments like lallana can not play for England, well then one has to wonder if their objective is discovering truth or just supporting a pre-conceived dogma.

[Sotos]

And by the way, you can cross Lallana from your England team as well.

Is lallana claiming to be of the 'native' people of Britain and claiming other people who live in Britain are not 'native'? His nationality is not in dispute. He probably does not go around claiming to be of a group of people that is 'native' either. Those that do make such claims invite legitimate investigation of the migratory flows that led to Cyprus being settled and populated. When those that claim to be native, then dismiss a report, simply on the basis that there are historians who deny the holocaust, and use arguments like lallana can not play for England, well then one has to wonder if their objective is discovering truth or just supporting a pre-conceived dogma.

What you are talking about is irrelevant since nothing of what is presented here disputes the fact that we are native. Telling us that a greater % of our DNA has existed in Cyprus for an even greater time is supposed to dispute how native we are? Clearly not. The issue we are discussing is not whether somebody can be native or not, but whether DNA determines the nationality of people (and I am not talking about mere citizenship here). The argument of Stud, GR, Lordo etc is that Greek-Cypriots are not Greek and it is the false logic of that argument which I attacked. Earlier you responded to me and claimed "I do not recall STUD ever saying that DNA should determine who can or should be a member of given nation?", but you are wrong. That is EXACTLY what they believe (selectively, just for Cyprus) and what they are trying to argue for.

[kurupetos]

what gcs are only 7.3 greak. now theres a turn up for the books.

You are 100% idiot.

[erolz66]

The argument of Stud, GR, Lordo etc is that Greek-Cypriots are not Greek and it is the false logic of that argument which I attacked.

Either GC in Cyprus share a greater dna commonality with those in Greece, than they do with either TC or others in other areas or they do not. If they do not, and really personally I could not care less either way, then dna wise it seems to me that claims that GC are genetically Greek, that they are descendants of Greeks and genetically no different from mainland Greeks, would seem to be undermined by such information ?

Earlier you responded to me and claimed "I do not recall STUD ever saying that DNA should determine who can or should be a member of given nation?", but you are wrong. That is EXACTLY what they believe (selectively, just for Cyprus) and what they are trying to argue for.

Well that is not my perception of what stud has said but if you can be arsed to give a quote / link of where stud has said something that shows this is what he believes / is saying, I will certainly read it and review my view as appropriate.